Topic: Why did they remove the kick starter?

[mjstone]

I ride my 500 year round here in Michigan.  In the winter its impossible to start the bike with the starter if the engine is cold.  The Honda owners manual says to kick the engine over several times with the ignition off to prime the carbs for starting in cold weather.  Then turn the ignition on and use the electric starter to start the engine.  This usually doesn't work for me when the temps are below freezing.  After a couple of cranks from the starter it drags the battery down and doesn't start.  I just do the prime thing and then turn the ignition on and kick a couple more times to fire it up.

Now if she's warm the electric starter fires her up right away.

MJ

[scottly]

They removed the kick-starter because they got tired of hearing weenies complain that they couldn't start on the first kick.

[754]

 Helps if you dont "Kick like a Girl"...........

[onepieceatatime]

I can't find the post but someone did an excellent write up of the interchangibility of the 550 and 650, with some work i believe the cases can be swapped, hopefully somebody knows the post  . I've thought of this as well it happened the first time i kicked over another street bike. Just felt right

I think this was the thread.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=40414.0

Seems like too much work to get the kickstart.

[phil71]

We are all overlooking the fact that the CB 750, from DAY ONE was only built with a medium-duty kick start mechanism. In fact, with the exception of the tiddlers with no elec start, no honda after '65 had a kick start mechanism built with the intent of it being the primary way to get 'er goin. Look at the size and type of steel on mid to late 60's triumph kicker assy, then compare to every honda you know that has the electric option.. 
  You cafe guys who toss the starter motors in the trash are always one random day away from a really bad sprain when the kicker finally busts it's boss off the case.. That goes for 750/500/400/350f/350/200/175....

[Terry in Australia]

Not this Cafe Guy Phil, I took the kicker off............

[Dimitri13]

You cafe guys who toss the starter motors in the trash are always one random day away from a really bad sprain when the kicker finally busts it's boss off the case.. That goes for 750/500/400/350f/350/200/175....

Ah, no mention of the 550. Off to the garage to junk the starter

[Gordon]

We are all overlooking the fact that the CB 750, from DAY ONE was only built with a medium-duty kick start mechanism. In fact, with the exception of the tiddlers with no elec start, no honda after '65 had a kick start mechanism built with the intent of it being the primary way to get 'er goin. Look at the size and type of steel on mid to late 60's triumph kicker assy, then compare to every honda you know that has the electric option.. 
  You cafe guys who toss the starter motors in the trash are always one random day away from a really bad sprain when the kicker finally busts it's boss off the case.. That goes for 750/500/400/350f/350/200/175....

The size difference between a sohc4 and a Triumph kick-start mechanism probably has as much, if not more, to do with the fact that it requires much less force to kick over a sohc4 than it does a Triumph.  If someone is kicking a sohc4 hard enough to sprain something if it breaks mid-kick then they're using way more force than needed and their over-enthusiasm is most likely the cause of it breaking.  I can kick-start my 750 with my hand.  Try that with a mid-60's Triumph. 

[chickenman_26]

I can kick-start my 750 with my hand.  Try that with a mid-60's Triumph.

Or a Norton Commando! Electric starting created an explosion in the numbers of baby boomers buying large displacement motorcycles in the '70s, and I think that was one of the main goals of the manufacturers in adding electric starting. Can you imagine how many folks would be driving cars if you still needed to crank them by hand? And as the bikes became bigger and more reliable, the kicker mechanisms were removed to save weight, space, and cost. If a guy wants to be a Manly Man, then he should buy an older bike with a kicker. And be sure to neglect the battery and charging system, so he'll actually need to use the kicker. After all, if a guy only uses the kick starter when someone is watching, what does that say about him?

Gordon, you probably have this same T shirt. I lived in Savannah in the late '60s to early '70s and lived about 5 miles from work in the same apartment complex as a co-worker. His wife was from Wisconsin and would only "allow" him to buy a Harley (pussy whipped). So he had a '72 Super Glide, and I had a '72 Yamaha 650. We almost always parked next to each other. Every morning, I'd wait till I saw him out in the parking lot jumping up and down on that POS. Then I'd go out there with cup of coffee in hand, apply the choke, thumb the start button, and the bike would instantly spring to life. Then I'd go back inside to get my gear, leaving him still jumping and sweating while he heard the smooth tickover and saw little puffs of steam coming from the Yam's pipes. It was really fun rubbing his nose in it. Every time I remember this, it still brings a smile to my face.

Stu

[DH]

The kickstart lever is nice to have when lining up timing marks.

[the technological J]

The kickstart lever is nice to have when lining up timing marks.

absolutely! i got rid of my starter button and hid my ignition key but it has a start option on it(like a cars)..... i held on to that option for cold day starting.... i had an 81 yamaha that i regularly  had to push start.... i wonder if ill ever own a bike without a kicker again... i get a couple chopper mags and every chopper in the world must have a kick  to be approved by the old school riders(like it matters).... except theres a million places to by the kits for the HD's

[City Boy]

Hi gang.The kick start is a must have with my Cobra.The lectric is fine for cold start and normal riding but if I stall in stop and go,the starter will not report for duty but a half kick has it refired.  Rock On

[Bodi]

I don't think anyone, anywhere, has ever actually started an early Wing with that "kickstarter". I've never figured out why Honda even put it in the engine. Once you get the lever out of its hiding place and manage to stick it on the engine, a full stroke turns the motor over maybe 3/4 of a revolution. Slowly.
I'm old enough to not trust electric start - on old carbureted bikes that have sat a while, often trying electric start just drains the battery and floods the engine. I go to the kick first: whatever charge the battery still has is all there for spark, and after a few full choke kicks without even a wheeze the motor stumbles and farts to life.
There is a good reason old Brit bikes have beefy kickstarter mechanisms. There's a maximum force a foot can apply to the lever, but the force a backfiring engine can deliver to a foot through that mechanism is quite amazing. I've witnessed a 200lb+ man catapulted to about 5 feet in the air straightlegging a BSA 500 single. Luckily he had already donned his helmet (previous experience, perhaps?). Always keep your knee unlocked!

[phil71]

I started a GL1000 with the kick starter, which promptly deposited a chunk of metal into the clutch housing that made a hideous noise till it was removed.  Terry, LOVE IT!

[phil71]

I used to have a 66 Ducati monza. the kicker mechanism was simple to a fault, and the ignition was pretty finnicky. Trying to start it once, it fired in the wrong place and tried to catapult me over the bars. My groin hurt for a week.. Still, if there were youtube footage of it today, I'm sure I'd be laughing at it.

[ofreen]

The idea that kick starting a CB750 is somehow more manly than using the electric start is pretty funny considering how easy they are to kick.  If the CB750 kicked over like my old '64 FLH DuoGlide or my CR500, maybe there would be something to the claim.  Although it seems like an odd way to determine manliness.

[TwoTired]

I had a 62 BSA (way back).  It was kick start only.  It had to be.  No battery.  In order to get spark, the magneto (coupled to the crank) had to turn.

I had to rebuild the magneto to make it run when I bought it.  It's a twin and I got the timing 180 degrees out when I reinstalled it (had to guess as I had no shop manual).  Anyway, I knew to keep my leg straight/locked during kick.  The kicker tossed me over the bars, onto the sidewalk in front of the bike.  (Fortunately, a 20 year old body can take such abuse.)

I had a different appreciation for the electric start on the 305 Honda after that (never used the kick start on that much).

My 74 Cb550 developed a worn out battery when it was my only bike. Unsure of whether it was the battery or the starter (no part substitutions available from other bikes), I simply kick started it for the daily commutes for another two years...until the battery wouldn't hold enough charge to spark the bike over a weekend of sitting.  New battery and the electric start worked fine again.

My Cb700sc has no kicker.  It developed a bad starter that became intermittent before failing entirely.  It would wait 'til I got 5 or more miles from home before refusing to start, even with a brand new battery.  I really missed that kicker on the 550.  Being bigger displacement I expected a push start would need two people.  But, I finally got stuck out in nowhere with no help in sight.  Put in fourth gear and pushed the bike forward from the seated position about 5 ft, pop the clutch and varoom, off I went, and had a nice ride home on the back road twisties.  I still wish it had a kicker, but I haven't needed it on this bike since fixing the starter motor.

I know why some bikes NEED a kicker.   I just assume it was economics that later designs removed it.

Cheers,

[seanbarney41]

wanna be a manly kickstart hero?...get a 500cc Vincent single...watched a little 170lb guy do it at a vintage bike show last summer, certainly required practice, technique, and skill, and it took him a while which resulted in everybody watching...he managed to only get catapaulted about 1.5 feet instead of the 5+ possible, I was impressed

[754]

 what would Uncle Ernie Do....= WWUED...
 Ride a bike with a kicker of course..

 Beemer kickers go out sideways, used one of them a while on a R100 RT.
 If you prefer the extra stuff on your bike for eSTART.. BY ALL MEANS.. GO FOR IT..
 ..myself I got no desire for a no-kick bike...

 GL kicker was a  transition idea, they were not sure a no-kick bike would be accepted..

 

[754]

.. if we  didnt have so many girls on here hiding behind masculine usernames and monikers, we could all just accept kickers and go riding...

[phil71]

I'm outfitting a briggs recoiler and pull-start to my K1. THAT #$%* is gonna be manly.

[strynboen]

vhy not use the hole engine..then you have a harley

[Terry in Australia]

I'm outfitting a briggs recoiler and pull-start to my K1. THAT #$%* is gonna be manly.

Pffft! Recoil starters are for fags Phil, I'm fitting a rope and pulley starter on mine!

And Frank, I'm in awe of your manliness, you kick started a BMW R100RT? It must have been really hard mate, the R100RT didn't come with a kicker!

[754]

 My 81 RT had a kicker.. you picked the correct side..

 sure miss the clock off that bike... accurate...

[Terry in Australia]

The only R100 that had a kicker was the GS Frank. I had my 1979 R100RS converted by an engineer, but it was an engine and gearbox out of the frame job. Cheers, Terry.