Topic: Rotten rusted CB750 aka The Red Rider OUT OF HIBERNATION

[mrjack55]

No worries Larry, I've always wanted a house inside a garage, it'd be great to get up in the morning and walk straight out into my garage, and to be able to park all my bikes and cars around the house under cover, and out of sight of nosey neighbours etc. No grass to mow, no gardens to weed, you could air-condition your whole property, how good would that be?

My wife thinks I'm mad, (as do the staff at the sanatorium) but I think they just don't have any imagination........

"Hey! Can someone loosen the straps please? It's really hard to scratch my balls with my nose!" 

Terry, you just made coffee squirt out of my nose. 

I often found that if you scoot on your arse like a dog, the crotch strap does a fine job scratching the ole plumbs.  Just watch out for that buckle! 

[Terry in Australia]

Hey thanks Jack, that's one of things I love about this site, there are so many levels of knowledge to tap into, regardless of the subject!

[MoMo]

Well, I have been busy at work as well as looking for a house with a bigger garage/shop sans development restrictions.  Put an offer in yesterday for a 2100 sq. ft. house with a 3 car garage with storage room over. 146000, waiting to hear back whether yea or nay.  In the meantime I scrubbed the spare 750F motor, which I may replace the top end gaskets. The original engine had 75000 miles and ran well, this F motor only had 6000 but running status is unknown. It had low compression but a couple doses of Seafoam brought compression up to an acceptable level. Not sure if I want to precautionarily replace the gaskets or put it in to see how well it runs. I like  minimal work(some might call me lazy ) so I am leaning to the latter.  Here are photos of the F motor, cases aren't even broken ...Larry

[Terry in Australia]

Looking good Larry, and good luck with the house hunting! Cheers, Terry.

[MoMo]

Thanks Terry.  I spent the day following an idea you gave me (your comment on the pink motorcycle ). I own 3 complete 400  fours ( I  set the Red Rider aside till I decide on what to do with the motor ) and decided to work on the fourth  incomplete 400F.  I had already painted the frame of the 400 silver when the idea came upon me to paint the tank, fenders, side covers a combination of pink and either pearl or cream-it will then be sold and part of the proceeds will go to breast cancer. Your comment was the impetus for the idea .   Here are some photos of the finished 400's....Larry






It will be similar to the yellow/black but cream or white and pink.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Terry.  I spent the day following an idea you gave me (your comment on the pink motorcycle ). I own 3 complete 400  fours ( I  set the Red Rider aside till I decide on what to do with the motor ) and decided to work on the fourth  incomplete 400F.  I had already painted the frame of the 400 silver when the idea came upon me to paint the tank, fenders, side covers a combination of pink and either pearl or cream-it will then be sold and part of the proceeds will go to breast cancer. Your comment was the impetus for the idea .   Here are some photos of the finished 400's....Larry






It will be similar to the yellow/black but cream or white and pink.

Great idea Larry, I think a pink 400F would be attractive to a young lady, (or just about anyone at the Blue Oyster Bar..............) and donating some of the proceeds to one of the Breast Cancer charities is a noble thing to do, I can't think of too many people I know who haven't been touched by breast cancer in one way or another, well done mate. Cheers, Terry.

[MoMo]

Not much happening with the Red Ryder or the Pink Panther.  Still cannot make up my mind which motor to use in the 750 and ran into a carb problem with the 400-so many missing parts in the linkage that the carbs are unuseable as is   ( The PO had totally disassembled the carb bodies and linkage and then put everything in a box-needless to say parts managed to find their way out of the box...Larry

[lucky]

Vinegar will cause it to rust much faster.
Sculptors use it to make new metal have a rusted look.
Baking soda is put on batteries to neutralize the acid on the top of the battery.
If you mix vinegar 50% with water the steel will rust even faster.

Phosphoric acid is what you need . It turns iron oxide into iron phosphate.
It stops the corrosion process.

Then rinse with water and dry....paint within 4 hours.

Aluminum gets a white powder (aluminum hydrochloride) and again phosphoric acid is best for the corrosion, and then coat with alodine. You can get Alodine from Aircraft Spruce company.

Thanks mate, but I tried Phosphoric acid on the floats and it did nothing. Cheers, Terry.

The floats are BRASS not Aluminum or steel. Phosphoric acid is for aluminum and steel,not for brass. Muriatic acid for brass and not too long . Please be very careful with the muriatic acid!!!!

[MoMo]

Got some time today to go out to the shop-flipped the 75000  mile motor over and saw silicone on the oil pan gasket




However when I got the pan off the black silicone crap seemed to only be on the gasket


I had a spare pump from a very low mileage motor and installed it.  I never saw that type of black encrusted oil inside a case before. It was actually hard...Larry

[Terry in Australia]

Oooher, oil that black and goopy isn't a good sign Larry, it either ran for many thousands of miles without an oil change, or the pistons/rings/cylinders are badly worn, and some exhaust gas is escaping into your bottom end.

It's a high mileage engine, did you do a compression test? Does the oil smell burnt? Nothing that can't be fixed of course, and much cheaper to repair than my Triumph Rocket III...........       

[MoMo]

Thanks Terry.  I don't think I did  a compression test(working on too many bikes at the same time)  but the motor ran well  and did not smoke.  My sense of smell has dimished (4 too many cats) but definitely it does not have that oil burnt smell,  wouldn't blow-by cause the oil to harden as this has? But it seems it would also have that telltale smell.

I'll think I will use the low mileage F motor  instead and maybe pull the top end on this at some future time, or just stick it in a customer's bike that has a seized engine.  I still have two 750 retro cruisers- both with less than 20k, however one has a broken case and severe shifting problems, the other runs great but I do not have a title-and a title is impossible to get in the state of PA so I'll play the game of musical motors. ...Larry

[ekpent]

Larry without re reading it all did you mention what your intention with the bike was. Is it going to be a keeper or a seller. If it was a seller than maybe the old original engine should go back in it.

[MoMo]

Larry without re reading it all did you mention what your intention with the bike was. Is it going to be a keeper or a seller. If it was a seller than maybe the old original engine should go back in it.

Plan is to sell after using it for a bit.  Since it is far from original (Jardines, seat, frame and paint scheme) not sure of the benefit of keeping the original motor.  I would think the appeal of a 6000 mile motor over a 75000 could sway a buyer.  Of course, they'd have to take my word on the mileage.

Why do you think I should go with the original motor?  Thanks for the input...Larry

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, from memory it's a K5 or K6, so I don't think changing the engine for a better condition F or F1 engine will be a bad thing, and if the 75K engine was a bit tired, the low mileage engine might put a bit more pep in it's step. Cheers, Terry.

[MoMo]

Yeah, from memory it's a K5 or K6, so I don't think changing the engine for a better condition F or F1 engine will be a bad thing, and if the 75K engine was a bit tired, the low mileage engine might put a bit more pep in it's step. Cheers, Terry.

Terry, it is a K5.  If it were KO-K3 I'd l'd lean towards the original but other than being a SOHC and mine there isn't anything special about the bike.  I hadn't put that into perspective until you mentioned the K5-K6.  thanks...Larry

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, from memory it's a K5 or K6, so I don't think changing the engine for a better condition F or F1 engine will be a bad thing, and if the 75K engine was a bit tired, the low mileage engine might put a bit more pep in it's step. Cheers, Terry.

Terry, it is a K5.  If it were KO-K3 I'd l'd lean towards the original but other than being a SOHC and mine there isn't anything special about the bike.  I hadn't put that into perspective until you mentioned the K5-K6.  thanks...Larry

Ha ha, yeah, I've got a K6 frame here (well, enough parts to build a rolling chassis, really) and I was going to use an F1 engine because the engine numbers on these two models are so confusing I don't think anyone here in Oz would know, but the engine in my K1 has a K6 bottom end, so I guess I'll rebuild it back into a stock K6 engine eventually. Have fun mate, and don't be tight with the pics! Cheers, Terry.  

[MoMo]

Not sure why many of my photos are deleted but I have been having all sorts of problems with photobucket lately.  I started a reply a couple minutes ago and photobucket caused my computer to lock.  Anyhow, since I decided to use the low mileage F motor I needed to swap the Jardine flanges from the 75000 K motor to the F.  Here are photos of the motors-the K motor is the one without the mini-frame.
[imghttp://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww51/photolar/red%20black%20750/DSCF2286.jpg]http://[/img]



Two of the phillips head screws that retain the Jardine flange on the high mileage K motor stripped out, which is unusal until I noticed my Snap On phillips bit was twisted. I had to drill them out but the removal was time consuming but somewhat easy.
[imghttp://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww51/photolar/red%20black%20750/DSCF2291.jpg]http://[/img]
Then I used the double/nut technique along with a bit of heat to remove the studs from the F motor


Then I switched the Jardine flanges to the F motor.  Not good as the depth is different.  Maybe I wasted a couple hours of my time?

Flange on K motor


Flange on F motor


There is a 2 to 3mm depth difference.  I knew the heads are a bit different but did not expect this problem. I have a spare set of original pipes but I want to reinstall the Jardine headers on this bike.  I will need to install the motor in the frame to get some ideas as to how to rectify this...Larry

[MasterChief750]

did you replace the copper crush gaskets on the F head or is there more than one smooshed in there, just a thought.

[MoMo]

did you replace the copper crush gaskets on the F head or is there more than one smooshed in there, just a thought.

MC750, actually, those photos are without the copper washers ...Larry

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Larry, the early K flanges will go in, I've done it a couple of times myself. There might be a carbon buildup in the F head's recesses that needs to be cleaned out, but they will go mate, so don't despair, you're doing a good job. Cheers, Terry.

[MoMo]

Thanks for the compliment, Terry.  But there is no way the Jardine flange will sit flush down to the mount tab, as the depth of the Jardine from bottom of the flange to bottom of the tube that sits against the head is  2 to 3mm more than the distance from the mount to the surface where the copper gasket sits. When the flange was in the K motor it sat flush down to the mount tab. I'll work it out once I get the motor in the frame, waiting for some help to do that...Larry

[ekpent]

Hey Larry.Personelly the only reason I would put the older original engine in it if still running descent is if I was going to sell it anyway is I would probably want to keep the low mileage 6,000 mile engine around in my stash for a future keeper.  Good low mileage engine though should hopefully help the selling price.

[MoMo]

Hey Larry.Personelly the only reason I would put the older original engine in it if still running descent is if I was going to sell it anyway is I would probably want to keep the low mileage 6,000 mile engine around in my stash for a future keeper.  Good low mileage engine though should hopefully help the selling price.

Even though I have a dozen bikes I don't consider any a keeper-anything is for sale at the right price.  I enjoy the process of the resto/rebuild.  Believe it or not it really does not matter what I ride-right now my daily rider is a 1981 GL500I, and has been for over a year.  The SOHC's are weekend fun bikes.  I am moving to a much larger garage so I could become a hoarder like someone on the forum Ride safe...Larry

[ekpent]

Are you having some luck on the house hunt ?  I wish I had a place with a huge pole barn onsite that I could just stumble out my door and enjoy without having to drive 15+ miles across town each way all the time.

[MoMo]

Are you having some luck on the house hunt ?  I wish I had a place with a huge pole barn onsite that I could just stumble out my door and enjoy without having to drive 15+ miles across town each way all the time.

I live in an association controlled development that prohibits me from a pole barn or I would do that here.  I also live in the fifth most expensive county in the US, taxes are pushing 6500 and the government is controlled by a bunch of do-gooders that keep coming up with programs to increase the taxes. (I guess that is a no-no political comment but it is the truth).  I found a house in Lancaster County closer to my work and with minimal taxes and little to no restrictions.  However, it already has a great start for a shop

new house, a fixer-upper but I will have the money to do that when present house sells.  Settlement on this house is the 22nd-present house unsold which could lead to financial difficulties until it sellls. I'll just sell some bikes to cover