Author Topic: Vietnam  (Read 9442 times)

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Offline scottly

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2012, 06:23:11 PM »
Before Mai Lai, we always thought we Americans were the good guys. That incident ripped our reality apart. Then the Kent State shootings. No wonder we lost faith in our government, and learned to question authority.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2012, 12:11:16 AM »
Before Mai Lai, we always thought we Americans were the good guys. That incident ripped our reality apart. Then the Kent State shootings. No wonder we lost faith in our government, and learned to question authority.

It was hardly the first time....look up No Gun Ri during the Korean conflict.  Or the last..... as the steady parade of atrocities showed in Iraq and Afghanistan.






Offline Really?

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2012, 10:20:14 AM »
I respect each and every one of you that served.  Always have.

On every Veterans day, I shake the hands of those I know that served and say Thank You!
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Offline 72 yellow

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2012, 03:51:44 PM »
When I took my 1st physical in Mar69, we were lined up around the perimeter of a room and a Marine captain came with a corporal and asked if anyone wanted to volunteer for the Marines.  A 2 year hitch just like the army draftees.  Of course if you didn't make it through basic, you were put on a bus and shipped to Fort Campbell for immediate induction into the army.  So much for deliberately failing marine basic.  So no one moved.  He went around the room and said 1, 2, 3, Marine, 1, 2, 3, Marine.  The corporal marked your paperwork accordingly.  Some guys on the other side of the room were doing some counting of their own, and tried to switch places.  He saw them and all got their paperwork marked for Marines.

Offline MoMo

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2012, 04:19:17 PM »
When I took my 1st physical in Mar69, we were lined up around the perimeter of a room and a Marine captain came with a corporal and asked if anyone wanted to volunteer for the Marines.  A 2 year hitch just like the army draftees.  Of course if you didn't make it through basic, you were put on a bus and shipped to Fort Campbell for immediate induction into the army.  So much for deliberately failing marine basic.  So no one moved.  He went around the room and said 1, 2, 3, Marine, 1, 2, 3, Marine.  The corporal marked your paperwork accordingly.  Some guys on the other side of the room were doing some counting of their own, and tried to switch places.  He saw them and all got their paperwork marked for Marines.


I saw that happen at 401 North Broad in Philly.........................I enlisted in the Air Force...Larry

Offline Britbiker0813

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2012, 06:22:41 AM »
We don't see anything like that today. This [tightly controlled coverage] along with an all-volunteer military (it's estimated less than 1% of the U.S. population is directly involved in recent conflicts) means the average citizen is very insulated from what goes on and the real costs of war. A damn shame from my perspective and personal opinion.
[/quote]

Actually, you don't HAVE to embed- it's just the easy and lets face it safest thing to do. In 2006 I worked for a CBC (Yes, the Canadians) documentary crew who were "embedded" with the Canadians at Kandahar Air Base. But I lived in town with my interpreter and driver and when they want to slip their embed I would meet them at the gate and off we would go. Of course they let me know where they wanted to go a couple of days in advance so I could sniff the air in the area and plan the trip.

I would be more than happy to plan and guide for anyone who wants to move freelance round Afghanistan- I lived and worked there for 4 years.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2012, 07:56:10 AM »
Back then we were providing weapons to the other side.

And my take on Vietnam and also Korea is that it helped bring communists down in the long run. Evil cant stay unoposed. I am grateful to all veterans for that.
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2012, 02:55:55 PM »
My girlfriend and future wife is from south Vietnam.  Born in 1968 and moved to the US in 1994.  Her family had it pretty rough after the fall of Saigon.  Her father spend 7 years in the torture prisons called 're-education' camps.  All her brothers and sisters also had to do time in them too.  The commies made it hard for the southerners after the war, and to this day my girlfriend and her family hates them.

Speaking of shows about Vietnam though, this is a pretty good (and sad) movie.  Kind of hard to find, but worth watching if you can find it.

Official Journey from the Fall Trailer
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Offline Kong

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2012, 06:52:21 PM »
I went to Viet Nam the first time in the summer of 1967.  I came back home for the last time at the end of 1970.  I spent virtually all of my time, all three tours, in the bush.  I was in the Central Highlands, on the border.  There have been four times in my life when I did not expect to see the next day; three of them took place in 1968.

I am what is called a decorated veteran.  That means they gave me medals.  I never got one for something I remembered doing, and in one case for a actions in a place I could not remember ever having seen.  I may suprise some of you to learn that out of three years in that country I can remember almost none of it.  It may also suprise some of you all, particularly those who believe the utter horse#$%* the TV and movies depict, but I can only remember about a half a dozen guys I served with and have only kept in the loosest of contact with 1 of them.

I came back to the US between tours, I came through San Francisco each time.  Not one time did anyone act in any way disrespectful of me or of the uniform I wore - and I never talked to any other GI who had any problem either.  Whenever I hear that tired old #$%* about being spit on or called a baby killer or any of that other crap I am pretty sure I'm talking to a poser, someone who never served their country or anything else.

How you going to make a move about a war in which 90% if the guys who served never fired a shot and never got shot at?  How are you going to make a movie about a war that took place in a country that varied from swamp to mountain, from white sand beach to 3-tier-jungle.  How do you make a movie about 200 americans dieing per week, week after week, about riots in the streets at home, about politicians so deeply in the pockets of the industries that profit from war that they could not extract their own sons from the meatgrinder?

I want you to close your eyes for a moment and immagine this - and it is not a joke at any level.  Immagine yourself in a place where every person you see is doing everything they can to kill you, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  Immagine that you come to realize that the only way you will survive in this place is to kill everyone you see before they see you.  And all this has to be done with an on/off switch planted in your brain.  And when its all over you come home and pretend it never happened, which isn't so hard when, as I said, you can't remember much of anything about it.  Not then, not now, over 40 years later.

The only thing in this world that I hate more than war are the god damned idiots who glamorize or glorify it.  Those are the most despicable people in the world.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 06:56:46 PM by Kong »
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Offline scottly

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2012, 08:33:48 PM »
If only 10% of those that served were engaged in combat, that would be 900,000 men. Hardly an insignificant number. Glad that you were not met with disrespect on your return, Kong, but it wasn't something made up by Hollywood.
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Offline tramp

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2012, 04:03:31 AM »
we used to drop off seal teams from time to time
right  at the end in 75 we were patrollong the waters all the time
had to surface to let ships know that we were there
we knew we had to hold other ships off till the very end
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2012, 05:54:35 AM »

I want you to close your eyes for a moment and immagine this - and it is not a joke at any level.  Immagine yourself in a place where every person you see is doing everything they can to kill you, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  Immagine that you come to realize that the only way you will survive in this place is to kill everyone you see before they see you.  And all this has to be done with an on/off switch planted in your brain.  And when its all over you come home and pretend it never happened, which isn't so hard when, as I said, you can't remember much of anything about it.  Not then, not now, over 40 years later.

The only thing in this world that I hate more than war are the god damned idiots who glamorize or glorify it.  Those are the most despicable people in the world.
There is no more to say is there?
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Offline medic09

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2012, 05:51:44 AM »
That switch Kong mentions changes many people forever; but not all.  The switch remains embedded long after it has served its purpose.  I think the forgetfulness, for those who have it, is selective.  A defense mechanism.  I don't think everyone forgets anywhere near so thoroughly.  Then, too, there are the vets who need to forget and find ways to induce that with drugs, alcohol, or other self-medications and distractors.  I think there really are a lot of varied responses; though some form of PTSD is probably dominant.  (I think the thorough forgetting is a defense mechanism related to PTSD, personally.)

I wouldn't glorify war; but there have been wars that are necessary to stop the real evil done by others.  In fact, I sometimes wonder why we don't do that more often.  That question bothers me more, sometimes.  Probably because simply 'stopping evil' isn't enough reason for most folks to go to war.  Hitler wasn't stopped until he started to threaten the politoeconomic interests of those in power in the Western world.  And no one has, as far as I know, really intervened to protect the weak in Darfur; because who really cares about them anyway?  And Lincoln didn't go to war just to liberate slaves. Stalin killed untold numbers of his own citizens; but that wasn't "our business".   So even though some wars have had laudable outcomes or secondary goals, maybe that is less intended than we later like to say.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2012, 05:06:14 PM »
+1 Medic09
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Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2012, 11:28:37 PM »
 I am 52 years young.  I'm a military brat.  My father served 22 years in the Air Force. 1955-1977
 First he was a airplane mechanic then tested to become a Loadmaster on the c-141 Starlifter. He was involved in the Vietnam conflict from the beginning to the end.  Taking young troops there, shipping cargo all around the pacific and south east Asia, then bringing the metal caskets back home.
   He flew in many dangerous missions some top secret, like Laos and Cambodia.  He was there for the TET Offensive in 1968 and flew missions into Khe Sanh while being attacked.  As a kid growing up i hardly got to see and bond with my father. I use to watch the news every night wondering if he was gonna come home.  Growing up i watched my father change so much everytime he came home.  He only talked about what was going on over there to me when he was drunk which was alot. Almost all of the military men i would meet at the airbase " NORTON AFB " in San Bernardino were heavy drinkers.
    When he retired he didn't like the states anymore.  He moved to the Philippines to retire.  Alot of service men retire there.  Yea,  the Vietnam conflict changed alot of lives , soldiers and family alike.
    Sorry for the rant, i havn't talked to many people about this.  He retired as a Master Sergeant ( 6 )
stripes. He had many ribbions and metals which i have, mostly the Air Service Medal with 5 oak leaf clusters.  Here's some pictures of his things.......

     

         My father in Nam 1964-65    Plane is a C-123   He's kneeling in the very middle.


     

      One of many crazy awards he received.  Some of the missions didn't have good outcomes.


     

       Here's Norton AFB in San Bernardino.  Some C-141 Starlifter's lined up.  These are what he mostly flew on.  For those not in the know, the C-141 with the tail number 60177 is the famous " HANOI TAXI "
I had the privilege of walking around inside that plane before it became famous.

             http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanoi_Taxi


       

       Alot of time in the air............
           
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:33:15 PM by BLUE71TURBO »
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Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2012, 11:22:43 AM »
 Here's video's of action at Khe Sanh.  The cargo planes are C-130' s   My father was a loadmaster on these also.  He told me about one mission in a hot zone,  they were at altitude dropping huge pallets of fuel and ammo and the damn parachutes didn't open !  He watched the load plummit down and saw a nice mushroom
rise up.  Funny thing about him ,  he was scared of highth's !   He wore a parachute and a harness while opening the rear doors and releasing the loads. Crazy Sh!t !!  After dropping the loads he became a gunner.


            Lockheed C-130 Hercules at Khe Sanh


           Vietnam 1968


           
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2012, 11:58:21 AM »
Your Father was a brave man and you can only imagine what he saw during those intense battles.

I had a friend who was badly wounded there by a mortar round with several others. A Chinook driver who had come through the #$%* and was gone, heard the call and came back through the #$%* to pick those boys up.

I am tired of wars, I am tired of the US getting into everyone's business. We are not the only Country with a military. If there is evil to be dealt with, let someone take a turn dealing with it.

If the Iranians block the Strait, The Chinese get more oil than we do from there, they have a shiny new Carrier, let them try it out. 

I remember too well what war looks like. 

Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline mark

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2012, 02:24:52 PM »
When I was just a little kid, the commentary about Vietnam suggested that it would still be going on when I got old enough to go.

They were off by a few years.

...
I am tired of wars, I am tired of the US getting into everyone's business. We are not the only Country with a military. If there is evil to be dealt with, let someone take a turn dealing with it.

If the Iranians block the Strait, The Chinese get more oil than we do from there, they have a shiny new Carrier, let them try it out.  ...

What he said.

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Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2012, 03:06:19 PM »
The 3 major cargo planes used in Vietnam........

      USAF 1980s Part 10 (C-141, C-130 and C-5)
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Offline faux fiddy

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2012, 05:58:17 PM »
I finally got around to hooking up with one of the vets that hangs out at the local pub.  I was telling him of a patch that I bought at  the gift shop at Fort Bliss. I saw it and just had to have it.  He said it was his first detail,  that was him.  I talked with him last night, told him I would get online and get ten of them, just ordered them.














That last photo is from a really good blog at :

http://4thbattalion77thfieldartilleryafa.blogspot.com/2011/06/vietnam-war-from-officers-perspective.html
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Offline RustyStuff

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2012, 11:03:13 PM »
Your Father was a brave man and you can only imagine what he saw during those intense battles.

I had a friend who was badly wounded there by a mortar round with several others. A Chinook driver who had come through the #$%* and was gone, heard the call and came back through the #$%* to pick those boys up.

I am tired of wars, I am tired of the US getting into everyone's business. We are not the only Country with a military. If there is evil to be dealt with, let someone take a turn dealing with it.

If the Iranians block the Strait, The Chinese get more oil than we do from there, they have a shiny new Carrier, let them try it out. 

I remember too well what war looks like.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who belives it's time for us to stop being the worlds muscle.

Something that is really bothering me lately, are the comments I've heard from Old people about The mental problems being caused by the way wars are fought.

I have a semi-related family member who was in Iraq, and was totaly "destroyed" by the experience. I don't want to go into it, but he's messed up.
When my grandpa heard about how he's messed up all he said was " He must be on dope, none of the people in MY generation every had these problems". He has become so Pro War( ANY WAR, for anyreason is justified it seems to him) that anyone who has come back messed up, must be on drugs/fakeing. I've heard many other old people say things like this. And now i'm hearing whisperngs on TV that a few politicans are trying to impliment a draft in the future.

That really bothers me. Mabey it's time for the Old people go fight and Die if they belive they are so right. I'm tired of war and death for no seemingly real reason.
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Offline norom

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2012, 11:17:07 PM »
I work at a Golf Course called Aspen Lakes in Central Oregon and every Veteran's day weekend we offer vets free golf all weekend. We also do many types of fundraisers for the men and women who have served.

 My family has a good Veteran history, and I try to thank every vet I see and shake the hand of every person who has preserved my freedom and our country. So thank you all who have served and are still serving.

Offline faux fiddy

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2012, 12:58:22 AM »
I work at a Golf Course called Aspen Lakes in Central Oregon and every Veteran's day weekend we offer vets free golf all weekend. We also do many types of fundraisers for the men and women who have served.

 My family has a good Veteran history, and I try to thank every vet I see and shake the hand of every person who has preserved my freedom and our country. So thank you all who have served and are still serving.

Good on YOU. I was in Chicago, perhaps the most racially divided city in the world, still, and it was Veteran's day.  I spotted a person waiting for the same crosswalk sign with a Viet Veteran hat, and in the middle of 95th and Western I saluted and said thank you for your service.

I had a friend that was a frat house cook that I put up in my hillbilly shack, had the room, and left him to hold down the fort while I went to Alaska for a whole month or more.  He was 43 at the time. I hear he is dead by now, he played harmonica very well. Rug Head was his nickname, Lou Eckhert  was a good guy. I did him right and then maybe I did him wrong, .  Complicated situation when you return home from a month or six weeks away.

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Offline demon78

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2012, 04:56:00 AM »
RS all the guys I served with that were vets from WW2 didn't want ever to go to war again and gave us young idiots #$%* every time some one would get their macho up about the dirty commies or who ever and who could argue with a guy that flew with the desert airforce, survived 3 crashes and was shot at many times, or the other guy that was in 6 Group and  lasted missions over Europe as a WAG (Wireless Air Gunner) or for that matter the old guy that got 2 subs within  17 minutes, who said there has to be a better way to deal with war than what we have been doing and he was a fierce old bugger, even one of the guys who was in the Princess Pats that toured Buchenwald as the war was winding down and hated Germans said never again so watch what you say about old people fighting wars, most of us, now that I'm old look askance on our stupid governments and say what the #$%* are you idiots doing.
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Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: Vietnam
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2012, 07:09:18 AM »
This is for KONG,
Since you flew back STATESIDE from NAM, you probably landed in Travis AFB where I flew out of to catch my first ship, CVA-43 USS CORAL SEA. Did you stay on base or quickly change out of uniform to go into town?? It was a different story if you wore that uniform around , especially Golden Gate Park in the late 60s.
AND for your remark of POSER, I have a DD form 2 in my wallet that PROVES I WAS THERE> OH by the way the DD form is a MILITARY RETIRED ID.
 Everyones situation was different when WE returned and I returned BEFORE the MY LAI mass. had become public in 1969. This has to do a lot with wheather you were in a MILITARY based town or not, ie, SAN FRAN,SAN DIEGO and you have to remember  that was time of the HIPPIES ( FREE LOVE, AND PEACE AS LONG AS YOU HAVE SOME DOPE TO SHARE) and they were the ones spitting on US. If you were to take a poll of ALL NAM VETS you would find out the largest percentage of US weren't liked when WE returned.

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