Author Topic: Vietnam (Read 9577 times)

my78k · « **on:** January 06, 2012, 07:01:03 AM »

Guys, I hope this isn't a touchy subject but I just saw an ad for a new show called Vietnam in HD.

I know some of you guys were in "the #$%*" and I'm wondering how you feel about a show about it being aired.

I have been lucky enough to have never been forced to serve (and very thankful for those that have both willingly and not so much!).

I just wonder about who this show is actually catered to? I mean if you lived it you probably don't wanna re-live it and if you didn't how could the show do it any real justice?

Just wondering....looking for an insiders perspective.

I do hope that it is done in a way that pays it due respect.

Dennis

Really? · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2012, 07:25:43 AM »

If it is an HBO presentation, I would be all over it! The last two (Band of Brothers & The Pacific) were fantastic! I enjoyed M.A.S.H. and China Beach as well.

BobbyR · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2012, 09:08:13 AM »

I looked at their promotional material and it seems their motive is to document the War as it was. They asked people to submit their personal film footage which they digitized, which will preserve it. People will have the opportunity so hopefully see it from the perspective of the people on the ground.

Will some people have a problem watching it, I am sure they will and I would hope they don;t. My Father in Law was in the first wave on D Day and he could not watch a war movie or talk about it.

If this is done well, it will document a War which divided the Country. In that time some people mixed up the Soldier with the policymaker and troops returning were spit on and called "baby killers". Most were kids that were drafted and placed in a situation that was not of their making, and had to do things that were not in their nature. Today the public gets that point, the Politicians start the Wars and the Soldiers have to fight it.

It looks interesting, and I will watch it to see if it was done well.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2012, 10:02:54 AM »

I don't know if it is the same series, but I saw part of a couple of segments of a series by the same title on The History Channel a couple of months ago. My interest in watching much about the war was, and remains low. If it is the same series, the reference to HD is rhetorical re: the content rather than technically HD video, which makes sense since it is comprised of footage taken with 40 year-old technology.

What I saw seemed quite accurate. It did bring to mind how much things have changed. In today's conflicts the coverage is VERY tightly controlled, they call them pool reporters or correspondents. Back then, Vietnam crawled with reporters and photographers, many were free-lance. They would simply hitch a ride on a Huey or an APC with their Nikon F and as much film as they could carry and experienced the same things the troops did.

We don't see anything like that today. This [tightly controlled coverage] along with an all-volunteer military (it's estimated less than 1% of the U.S. population is directly involved in recent conflicts) means the average citizen is very insulated from what goes on and the real costs of war. A damn shame from my perspective and personal opinion.

Rgconner · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2012, 10:10:48 AM »

Michael Yon did exactly that in Iraq and Afghanistan, funding his own trips out there to embed with the troops.

Amazing work, really.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2012, 10:42:10 AM »

Vietnam was a nasty unsanitized war unlike today's conflicts. 52,000+ casualties. There was a draft of citizens unwilling to die for another country in an unjust "era" (never called war) many of which came home in a box or with mental, physical, or addiction issues. There were no rules other than survival if you could. Why are there rules in war anyway?!

Perhaps it will be good for all to see a comparison. I wasn't in country but it nevertheless affected me for life. My draft number was 49.

fmctm1sw · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2012, 10:57:18 AM »

I imagine times have really changed. Years back I was gassing up my car at a gas station and a kid in a wheelchair wheeled up to me and said, "Thanks." I said, "Thanks for what?" "For serving your country," he said. These days, there is (in large part) support and appreciation for the men and women who serve our country. I do my taxes for free, get 4 free tickets to Busch Garden theme parks every year, and get countless other benefits. I'm no historian but I doubt those who served in Korea/Vietnam came home to that kind of support. I have the utmost respect for those who went before me defending freedom and democracy around the world. I hope the series does justice to their cause.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2012, 12:23:31 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Rxman Griffin on January 06, 2012, 10:42:10 AM

Vietnam was a nasty unsanitized war unlike today's conflicts. 52,000+ casualties. There was a draft of citizens unwilling to die for another country in an unjust "era" (never called war) many of which came home in a box or with mental, physical, or addiction issues. There were no rules other than survival if you could. Why are there rules in war anyway?!

Perhaps it will be good for all to see a comparison. I wasn't in country but it nevertheless affected me for life. My draft number was 49.

Jerry, just a minor correction. "Casualty" refers to dead and wounded. Your figure is U.S. deaths. The total U.S. casualty figure is in excess of 350,000 as I recall. Far less than either the ARVN and NVA figures.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2012, 12:28:13 PM »

You're right Bob. We are all casualties in one way or another too. Wonder what the total head count in country actually was?

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2012, 12:36:36 PM »

I was in-country Oct. '67 to Oct. '68. We had access to the entire U.S. Army roster. I recall looking to see if there was another "Wessner" anywhere in-county (no), but we had a total of 500,000 troops in-county that year.

Given draftees, such as myself, only had to endure one year in-county, I've often wondered how many, in total, spent at least one tour over all the years the war lasted. I bet it's a pretty astounding total.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2012, 12:40:25 PM »

Just found one answer to my own question;

"9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the Vietnam Era (5 August 1965-7 May 1975)"

The war actually started in the fifties, but I think the numbers were quite low until the build-up in the mid-sixties.

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2012, 02:38:57 PM »

Do you REALLY think this war is any different? The only difference is the GOV'T has tighter controls on what CAN be reported. Some of those news reports really shocked people back in the STATES,because they had never thought that WAR was so BLOODY and then they would see a report form an in-country reporter and actually SEE their SON or FATHER shot on TV.

I spent my time off the coast on a CARRIER launching F-4s loaded with 500# bombs in 71, In 72, MINING HIPHONG harbor and in 75 helping with the EVAC.I continued my CAREER in the NAVY for more than 20 years because I WANTED to not because someone made me.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2012, 02:56:18 PM »

Chuck,

Did you see any draftees in the Navy? I remember going through the AFEES lineup and they were going Army, Navy, Marines when they were assigning the "recruits".

BobbyR · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2012, 04:23:21 PM »

In late 1971 and into 1972 it was clear that the whole thing would end badly. We began to make runs into Cambodia to disrupt, not defeat the NVA. They felt safe and had become complacent there so the assaults could meet minimal resistance and inflict maximum damage. We owned the air.

There were B-52 runs around Hanoi to make them nervous that we would employ a scorched earth policy before we left. So they began to talk.

It was clear that the NVA could not be stopped, the idea was to slow them down so our troops could pull back with some sense of order and move what was left of the ARVN forces up.

I do believe support for the war began to wane due to the news coverage. It was the first unfiltered war coverage piped nightly into people's living room in American. The war was no longer an abstract event.

I know many guys who while not "official" casualties, left home with a future ahead of them and came back psychologically damaged. Alcohol, Drugs, Anxiety, broken marriages, so they were causalities nonetheless.

The average time in combat in WWII averaged 60 days and you went to the rear. In Nam there was no rear for many. They spent 11 months in a combat zone. Even if you were not in active combat, the snipers and random mortar attacks kept you on edge.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2012, 05:58:41 PM »

As far as I was concerned, it was clear it could not be won on Jan 31, 1968. Though the generals called Tet an allied military victory, which I suppose it was (we had air superiority, unlimited ordinance to expend, etc.), the fact that the NVA and Viet Cong could pull this off after so many years of fighting, was a good indication it would never end. I watched Walter Cronkite's broadcast following Tet.. he had it right.

scottly · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2012, 06:33:05 PM »

Quote from: BobbyR on January 06, 2012, 04:23:21 PM

I know many guys who while not "official" casualties, left home with a future ahead of them and came back psychologically damaged. Alcohol, Drugs, Anxiety, broken marriages, so they were causalities nonetheless.

And then there were the effects of Agent Orange...
I was lucky; when I came of age in '72, I had a draft lottery number of 285, so I was safe. My older brother was also lucky, as he was granted a student deferment. Any way you look at it, it was a mess. I've known lots of Vietnam vets, like Dick, who had his eardrums blown out when a rocket blew up near him, and Terry, whose younger brother joined up to serve with him, and died there. Terry always felt responsible for his brother's death, and only mentioned the war once to me, in the 12 years I knew him. He died of cancer at age 48.

scottly · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2012, 07:40:06 PM »

As I recall, the "baby killer" statements and spitting on returning GIs stemmed from this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

Don R · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2012, 09:47:03 PM »

My brother got crashed on his honda in Japan, he was sent home to recover and missed Vietnam. He was airforce and had been signed up for some special training. I have cousins that returned psycially unhurt but still suffer from the experience. One was an army medic and one a Marine. Another was on the aircraft carrier that caught fire. It was a long time before we knew he was OK.

I also had uncles in WW2. I was born in 52 and was warned not to approach them if they were sleeping and never to come up quietly from behind. One had a family meeting to tell what he had seen in Germany and let everyone ask anything one time. Then never spoke of it again. One I never met, he died on Bouganville in the soloman Islands. Another took a swim in the Pacific when his destroyer sank.
I was preparing to Join when the wind down began and waited it out. My draft lottery number wasn't close to being called so I stayed home.
Not sure why, but I don't enjoy watching it.

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2012, 04:43:25 AM »

The MY LIA incident was mostly due to the troops ALWAYS being HYPER sensitive to everything around them and just going to pick up a child you could get your ass blown away cause the kid was sitting on a grenade set by the NVA. Probably what caused it to start was someone started running away and was shot, then everyone scattered like bugs and the Military saw them as threats.More shooting , more running till it all stopped. At this point the soldiers check to see if they ran because they were armed NVA and come to find out most of them were just kids and ran because they were scared.

On my first return to the STATES , when we crossed under the Golden Gate we had buckets of #$%* dumped on us, it was TRUE , we weren't well welcomed home. All you people think it was easy for us on the ships, well you are wrong! I spent 1 cruise and we were at SEA for 105 days before we ever made a port call. being at sea for that long is more a psychological than a comfort thing.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

dhall57 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2012, 07:37:31 AM »

I applaud everyone of the veterans on this forum and in this Country. Thank You for your service. You are the true hero's of this country. Im a little younger, but if I remember right the draft ended in 1973 but I still had to register when I graduated HS in 75 and around the same time the war ended.

BobbyR · « **Reply #20 on:** January 07, 2012, 08:25:03 AM »

Quote from: scottly on January 06, 2012, 07:40:06 PM

As I recall, the "baby killer" statements and spitting on returning GIs stemmed from this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

That phrase lived on for many years. My Lai was most likely a situation where the GIs cracked. The heat, bugs, the dysentery the unrelenting harassment by the NVA and the VC working for you in the day and mortaring you at night. Sometimes all this can break loose. Some broke and they had sick morons in command, so the pack mentality prevailed and it became a riot.

The Soldier in combat will cross a line that most people never face, once you have crossed that line it cannot be undone, guys on the ground told me the first one was bad, then it got easier.

If you read the history of the incident you see the best and the worst of us.

The scout copter driver that saw what was happening and put his feeble craft between the civilians and the rioters. The Huey crews that heard him call and came down and turned their guns toward the rioters while others evacuated whomever they could save.

Whenever you have a combat operation in progress around a civilian population civilians will be killed and maimed. When providing air support you can take out a structure where bad guys are, but there could be innocent people in there too, but you take it out anyway to protect the men on the ground. Life in those situations is not uncomplicated.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2012, 09:44:29 AM »

Hey Chuck, nobody on here thinks you had it easy. You may not have been in the paddies buddy but that doesn't mean you had it easy. Just glad you were there to do your job! The rest of the guys couldn't have done their jobs without the efforts of you and everyone else. Glad you were able to do your time with the sacrifices you made and get the well deserved retirement.

demon78 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2012, 10:30:00 AM »

I for the grace of god never had to go and I am thankful, I am also proud of being one of being one of the few Canadians that did serve his country and having taken the Queens Coin would have gone where I was pointed, my point is that the politicians now seem to think that it their god given right to send troops when and where ever they want to without question which is horse #$%*, the question should be debated, if for no other reason than to let the families know why their sons and daughters are dying or coming back as basket cases there's too much of the macho horse puckies being thrown about then lets obscure the reality maybe next time we send the politico's.
Bill the demon.,

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2012, 10:37:28 AM »

dHall , Where in NC are you? we may be CLOSE neighbors. I live about 15 miles west of Winston-Salem as soon as you cross the Yadkin River!!

During my whole NAM tour, the scariest I ever got was when we were mining the harbor. We were close enough to see the flash from B52 bombings and someone dragged a chain across the elevator deck , I about crapped ,cause I thought a MIG had had been able to sneak up on us at LOW LEVEL. Till to this day if I hear that sound I want to duck and cover.
Yes , When I went to the AF recruit center that was how those picked what branch you went in . I enlisted in the NAVY March 24, 1969 , the New Mexico justice system kinda helped me DECIDE!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2012, 12:19:02 PM »

Well then that decides it! I'm at exit 151 off I-25. That's 151 miles too close to New Mexico lol

When I was digging for something today I came across my Selective Service card. How coincidental! Dated 2/20/73 and reclassified as 1-D. Think that meant this one is done. I had to hide from the Army Reserves for the next 4 years after that.

Way too many haircuts and that wasn't happening again for a while!

News:

Author Topic: Vietnam (Read 9577 times)