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Author Topic: 550 in a 500 - now no spark  (Read 5983 times)

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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2012, 03:52:19 PM »
The points are opening fine and the gap is correct.  Maybe I just need to clean em up better?  It seems like they arent making enough contact?  Dunno but I'm off to mess with it.

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Offline phil71

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2012, 03:55:29 PM »
if you can force spark by moving them by hand, there's something amiss with the point settings, for sure. Of course it's good to dress the contact surface, but I feel like something else is going on here.
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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2012, 04:24:22 PM »
Quote from: phil71 on January 10, 2012, 03:55:29 PM
if you can force spark by moving them by hand, there's something amiss with the point settings, for sure. Of course it's good to dress the contact surface, but I feel like something else is going on here.

You're right.  I need to double check my adjustments...
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2012, 04:28:20 PM »
Did you clean the contact points?

You sure you set the points properly, using two steps?  First rotate point cam to find the high point and set max gap.  Then adjust rotation of the points plate to get them to open when the timing marks align (You'll have to also rotate the crank between plate adjustments.)
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline crazypj

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2012, 09:07:09 PM »
Sounds to me like there are two problems, points not completely clean and gapped at the wrong place so not closing fully.
 There is also a possibility the rubbing block is worn out?
 We still need a picture or two
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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2012, 01:59:22 PM »
Well I'm getting close - with your help so thank you!  I dressed the points again and gapped and set the timing.  All looks good.  I just have a super weak spark.  If I slap the points together or I kick it over slowly, I get a healthy spark.  If I kick it fast (start-it speed) or use the electric start - no spark.  What gives with this thing?  Could I need new points and condensers?  I will surely get you some pics.  Just say what you want to see!

Andy
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2012, 02:08:01 PM »
Starter motor is a high load (25-100 amps) on the battery and drags the whole system voltage down.  Lower the voltage to the coils and they produce less spark energy.
Doesn't really matter all that much, if it sparks, it can ignite the fuel air mix.

Make sure your battery is fully charged and in good condition.  Depleted or old batteries sag more under starter load the new, fully charged batteries.
Stock headlight and lighting take another 4-6 amps-ish.  Loaded down batteries lose voltage potential.
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2012, 02:29:03 PM »
Hmmmm.  I dont think its the right battery and its kinda shot at that.  I keep bringing it back with a tender but it will only crank the motor (with tthe lights off) for about 5 seconds.  Its a (n)everstart 12N9-4B-1.  That would do it eh?



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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2012, 03:09:18 PM »
You should still be able to kick start it.  Drove my 550 for two years with the battery so weak as to never allow electric start.

A new battery was like getting a new bike (sorta).  ::)
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2012, 03:36:21 PM »
so why would the points spark with a slow kick and not with a fast kick?  I've never seen these problems before!  Ahhhh!
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2012, 03:46:40 PM »
..with both point sets, or just one of them?

If different, then swap condensers to see if the symptom follows.

What voltage is getting to the coils?
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2012, 04:24:22 PM »
Neither set of points is sparking when I use the starter or kick starter.  For reference my cb350 points spark like crazy when I crank it.  I think I am just going to replace the points and condensers and go from there...
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2012, 05:40:03 PM »
The 350 (twin) has a permanent magnet alternator.  The faster you spin it, the more power is generates (to a point). And it generates more than the bike uses at idle speeds.
The Cb550 has an electrically excited alternator (takes power from the battery) to do any power generation.  Plus it needs about 2000RPM to make more power than the bike consumes.

Were I you, I'd get a fresh battery for the bike.  But, since I'm me, I'd just borrow a battery from one of my other bikes (Bwahahahah).  ;D
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline crazypj

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2012, 08:36:36 PM »
Quote from: TwoTired on January 11, 2012, 05:40:03 PM
Were I you, I'd get a fresh battery for the bike.  But, since I'm me, I'd just borrow a battery from one of my other bikes (Bwahahahah).  ;D


 ROFFLMAO  ;D  8)  ::)
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Offline MikeKato

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2012, 10:30:38 PM »
I just went through the same deal with the no spark/weak spark. After reading the boards here I found out that It's ok to jump from a car battery so long as the car isn't running. So I didn't even have the cycle battery installed,I just hooked up the jumper cables. I also was able to get week spark(using my hand as the ground) while all 4 wires were disconected from the plugs. So as I final tested each wire with an extra plug before connecting them I noticed the spark getting stronger with each connection,don't know why but it sure did happen. Also I was reading about a neat little tip about using a .17 bore brush for cleaning the female end of the four connections coming from the  harness to the coils. Didn't have to do it but I'm going to use that .17 bush on all the connection on the bike when i find my gun cleaning kit. Bought a file for my points,first thing I did.

GL!
Mike
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Offline dave500

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2012, 10:35:30 PM »
always have a grounded plug attatched to your coils if testing,if you dont the energy has to find a path to earth and this can be within the coils internal insulation,you can be lucky but the coil might suffer internal damage that might only give intermittent trouble like when hot or cold etc,this is more important with modern low resistance coils which have more pent up energy,this can also ruin electronic ignitions.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 10:38:53 PM by dave500 »
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Offline Danno

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2012, 11:02:11 PM »
check the little dowell that holds the points cam to the spindle and make sure it is not broken
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2012, 02:19:56 AM »
As I recall in reply #2, it was stated that 2 volts were lost between battery and coil input.
That's a problem to fix either now or latter, and can contribute to thin or no spark.
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2012, 10:03:01 AM »
This bike is not going to run until OP 'bites the bullet' and cleans every connection on the bike ....not as hard to do as you might think ! Even if you manage to make the bike start, stay within pushing distance of home ! as your electrical will fail/give up.Must open and clean the r. and l. hand switches too, no short cuts.......... when your doing this your adding reliability to your bike and that's what you want, right ?
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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2012, 06:03:51 PM »
I hear ya but why then would I get such a strong spark if I "slap" the points together?  I just put some new points and condensers in it and no change.  When I was trying to start I used some starter fluid, well when I realized I had no spark when using the starter I leaned over and slapped the points together to check if I still had spark that way and it turns out I did. BANG! Huge backfire through the exhaust.  So its possible if I could only get spark when I needed it.  So frustrating. 
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2012, 06:25:57 PM »
With a bunch of high resistance connections between the battery and the coils ( for instance; fuse, ign. switch, kill switch and wiring ), the 12v. available when you 'slap' the points together will produce a spark BUT will need TIME to 'overcome' the resistance in the wiring to make 12v 'available' again to make the next spark, can't do it with the motor cranking.... stinks of classic wiring corrosion.  :)
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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2012, 06:35:53 PM »
Quote from: Spanner 1 on January 12, 2012, 06:25:57 PM
With a bunch of high resistance connections between the battery and the coils ( for instance; fuse, ign. switch, kill switch and wiring ), the 12v. available when you 'slap' the points together will produce a spark BUT will need TIME to 'overcome' the resistance in the wiring to make 12v 'available' again to make the next spark, can't do it with the motor cranking.... stinks of classic wiring corrosion.  :)

well then I know what I'm going to do with my weekend.  Thanks!
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2012, 06:41:52 PM »
Be sure to report back....  :)
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Offline mtrdrms

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2012, 11:21:54 AM »
Cleaned EVERY connection on the bike GOOOD.  No change.  They werent' very dirty or corroded at all actually.  Any other suggestions?
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Offline crazypj

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Re: 550 in a 500 - now no spark
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2012, 11:25:14 AM »
Did you get a new battery yet?
 Where's the pics?
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