Topic: Pods? Are expensive better??

[messeduptriple]

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[HondaMan]

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Stock airbox is better. Always.

[messeduptriple]

My ? Is I think I will be trying the pods just once and see my luck. I'm sure trial and error if it doesn't work well ill just go back to box. I was looking around at different pods and I was curious if more$$$ is better?? K&N has pods that are 197$ and claim I don't have to adjust jets...is this bs?? Is it worth it or will cheaps be the same ?? What is the differnce?

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[messeduptriple]

Here's the pods that fit the 550

http://store.knfilters.com/mobile/mProduct.aspx?Prod=RC-0844

[MRieck]

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Stock airbox is better. Always.

That's pretty blanket Mark.

[HondaMan]

I spent 2 pages in my book explaining why the pods damage the airflow into the carb throats, causing massive flat spots in low midrange performance (3500-5500 RPM range). The 550 suffers it FAR worse than the 750, too. No amount of rejetting will solve it, as it is the disturbed airflow missing the jets altogether that causes the problem. Search for a while about pods" and you will find endless threads where riders have struggled to get them to run even acceptably. Physically, it won't happen, and you will have to settle for poor throttle response in traffic, fouled sparkplugs, and temperamental cold weather performance, just for the "looks" of them. IMO, not worth the effort or $$.

Years ago, K&N made some with built-in velocity stacks to solve this problem: they cost 4x as much as all the others and they were withdrawn from the market for poor sales.

[HondaMan]

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Stock airbox is better. Always.

That's pretty blanket Mark.

Well, pure velocity stacks will outperform the airboxes, but at the cost of filtration. Other than the above-mentioned K&N units with built-in velocity stacks, or the custom ram-tube mods with 4" long runners and a special still-air collection box for the 550, I have never seen nor found them to work. (In my experience!).

[messeduptriple]

What does velocity stacks do??

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[cameron]

Just FYI.. and totally anecdotal..
I run that very set of K&Ns mentioned above.. I have for YEARS.. and I don't have any problems.

I CERTAINLY have her running "acceptably". And I would put her against almost any bike, reliability-wise.
I dont have any problems in traffic or in cold weather... she is fine.
I ride year round. Just today I took her out in 35F after sitting for a week or two while i was out of town. Started THIRD try... which is sad for her... but she had been sitting!

So.. It CAN be done. I had help from smart friends, though.. and I can't tell you the absolute specs. We did a lot of trial and error.
So saying that pods can't be done acceptably- that is false at at least one data point.

Might it be BETTER with a stock airbox? Maybe. Probably. But at the expense of me skinning my knuckles to #$%* whenever I wanna take the #$%*ing carbs out (which is why I did it - not looks). As it is, she runs great, and I can pull my carbs in 10 minutes. Not that I need to, I just LIKE to, because I am a geek.

I have way more problems with oil seals than I do with air.

[crazypj]

To say a 550 won't need jetting with K&N is a total crock
 I spent a LOT of time sorting out jetting and it was far superior to stock
 Mine ran real well for 70,000+ miles (but it is 591cc, ported, cammed, exhaust, etc  )
 Bike is just wore out now done over 106,000 miles, mostly at 'reasonable' speeds (see avatar, that's 4th gear at 100,000 miles )

[Danno]

listen to these guys pj is right it can be done acceptably but what he is also saying is what I an Mark and others have always been saying it will take a lot of time to get it to that point and In all honesty wouldn't you rather spend that time riding these carbs are so fussy the stock airbox is the only way to go

I have also gotten it to work but I spent 6 weeks every day messing with jets and finally made 6 inch long runner tubes and internal velocity stacks in the runner tubes to make it work and where to put the pods with runners that long is anyones guess I could have run it that way but I hated what it did to the bike to make it work  that is why we always recomend the airbox

but then again maybe we just expect our machines to run well like the precision piece of equipment they were designed to be

[MRieck]

Just FYI.. and totally anecdotal..
I run that very set of K&Ns mentioned above.. I have for YEARS.. and I don't have any problems.

I CERTAINLY have her running "acceptably". And I would put her against almost any bike, reliability-wise.
I dont have any problems in traffic or in cold weather... she is fine.
I ride year round. Just today I took her out in 35F after sitting for a week or two while i was out of town. Started THIRD try... which is sad for her... but she had been sitting!

So.. It CAN be done. I had help from smart friends, though.. and I can't tell you the absolute specs. We did a lot of trial and error.
So saying that pods can't be done acceptably- that is false at at least one data point.

Might it be BETTER with a stock airbox? Maybe. Probably. But at the expense of me skinning my knuckles to #$%* whenever I wanna take the #$%*ing carbs out (which is why I did it - not looks). As it is, she runs great, and I can pull my carbs in 10 minutes. Not that I need to, I just LIKE to, because I am a geek.

I have way more problems with oil seals than I do with air.

Me too. On different bikes, with CV carbs, smoothbores and flatslides. You have to know the different circuits and the overlap involved. The big disadvantage is if they are exposed and it rains....no joy. They do not filter as well as the OEM paper filter and there is increased induction roar. When you start porting, increasing displacement by 20% or more and introduce a cam with 1 to 2 mm more lift and duration you run out of volume in the airbox (unless you heavily modify it). I would not recommend individual filters on modern bikes because the airboxes are huge compared to a CB piece. I could probably fit 3 OEM boxes in my Hayabusa box. Obviously the Hayabusa has much more displacement but 600 boxes are just about as large.
 I don't know why there is so much controversy about individual filters. If you do not know how to tune carbs and do not want to engage in the learning curve leave it stock. If you ride in the rain a lot use the stock box.

[kyre]

Try these out - http://www.pjmotorsports.com/velocity-stack-filters.html

I've been running stacks on my cb400f with similar filters for 7/8 years with no problems, although I don't ride in the rain much...

[05c50]

I think the original question was "Are expensive (pods) better?". And the answer is?

...........Paul

[tidd650]

They are certainly better from the prospective of the seller. If we read the question straight down to its specifics, the answer is "no".


But let's suppose the question isn't the if price has anything to do with performance. In this event, the question could still be interpreted in two ways:

1. When pertaining to pods, which are the best to purchase?  (Since price has no bearing on performance)
2. Does anybody manufacture pods that perform better than the original airbox?  To which, Hondaman seems to have answered that with a well researched "no".

[wrenchmuch]

What does velocity stacks do??

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Velocity stacks straighten out the flow of air coming into the carb throat . This creates a consistant flow past the jets in the carb making for a consistant fuel mix .  Velocity stacks are built into the stock air box ( the rubber coupler that connects carb to box ) . Most if not all currently available pods have no velocity stack built into them . Without a velocity stacks the airflow in the carb throat can become chaotic at certain RPM's making jetting difficult . Pods can also suffer erratic behavior from cross winds , as well as varying vehicle speed . Rain can be a problem as well . Having said all this many have jumped in above defending the use of pods . Results vary . Like oil , and oil coolers , pods tend to be a source of ongoing debate . Haven't seen a cooler thread in a month or so now . Suspect it will be along soon . Two Tired had an in depth explanation on the effects of velocity stacks and lack of them .

[cameron]

Good point.

In re: to OP.. the K&N Pods are cleanable ("rechargeable"), which in the LONG run will save dough, I think, and maintain the intended filtration properties over time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00029WYEY/

I have had the same set for maybe 8 years now? And I am getting to the end of a single $10 recharge kit- (some cleaner and new oil). The filters clean up really well.

[crazypj]

Got to agree with HM.
Unless you have a lot of experience, never or rarely ride in rain, stock OEM airbox is ALWAYS best on stock bike
 More expensive pod filters are better QUALITY and last longer.
 S&B should filter better than K&N, (extra layer of filtration material) but, you don't see them advertised as much or as aggressively
Uni filters are close to stock,don't last as long (still OK for a couple of years)
All pods make carb removal/fitting easier than stock airbox on early 4 cyl bikes.
Probably 99% are now fitted for looks rather than practical reasons
What was the question again 
The K&N I currently have on CB360 are at least 25 yrs old and have been on many different bikes (originally on a Kawasaki  GPZ 900 that never ran right with them)

[rbmgf7]

I always had problems with pods while riding my 750 on the highway. I finally ditched them and went back to the stock airbox. Ran much better.

My KZ twin was indifferent between pods and the airbox.

[754]

I would like to find a set of rubber end K&N. for the 750, the original first set they made. Would make a point of not getting them wet while washing, and maybe put a plastic bag over them if parked in the rain.


 I ran them for years, never found a real problem, got excellent gas mileage, rode in the rain a lot of times. First time I heard of anyone having a problem was when I found this forum. I must say tho, that back when I ran them, I spent most of my time at high rpms..maybe that was the difference..
 I think pods made with paper would leave you screwed for hours if they got wet...

[Really?]

Getting the rack of carbs off and on with the stock airbox is easy and quick.   Try pulling a rack out and putting them back on with a Venture.  You will want to commit suicide!

[messeduptriple]

Pulling off the box on mine was a #$%*.. I yanked it out like HE-MAN!
that's when I was stupid and never thought about how much work this will be with pods. I seen some really sweet black covers that look sporty that cover the triangle...if I can find out where they sell cool ones like that ill ditch the pods I think. Also the airbox is junk...now I need to buy another one I think. :^

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[Tews19]

Rare k&N pods exsist with velocity stacks built in? HMM, I may have to look at my pods now.. Anyone have a pic of what these rare one look like?

[crazypj]

Externally they look same as new ones

[Rgconner]

Internally, they would look like a trumpet or funnel.

Kinda like the shape of the boots on the stock airbox.

Someone was making breadbox style pods, I recall people saying that reduced the turbulence effect.

Not as aesthetically pleasing, but they do look like they are easy to take on and off