Author Topic: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs  (Read 1499 times)

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Offline cabrala

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Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« on: January 20, 2012, 04:57:38 AM »
If anyone has good information on PD46C parts, or earlier year carb conversion please keep me in the know. Some will tell me to read the forum; I have done that and I will continue to, but I have come up with small bits of information here and there and am looking for more. I know '78 carb parts are hard to come by and I know a conversion involves a new intake manifold, couplers, plenum box, throttle cables and changes in the choke mechanism as well as fuel delivery, but my newbie brain is still telling me it could be worth it if I am truly gung-ho on getting this bike back together.

Maybe I am missing how tedious of a mess this could become, but isn't this type of revival project supposed to make me rip out my hair, yell and swear??
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

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Offline cabrala

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 10:49:52 AM »
Would you say that the PD's are better than the earlier models?

I've read some mixed reviews on that topic as well. Earlier is easier to clean and locate parts. PD's have a larger adjustment range and perform better. Earlier is not a drop-in conversion. PD rebuild kits are extinct.  :o

What to do, what to do.
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

Need a better, newer points cover gasket? How about rubber washers for the headlight bucket? Click the link below:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=122308.0

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2012, 12:31:55 PM »
You can get parts easily for tese carbs and yes they have very good features. The choke fast idel cam arrangement is very handy. The aacel pump helps with throttle response. Why would you want to go backward?
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2012, 02:10:48 PM »
If you are keeping the stock exhaust and air filter arrangement, it's far better to make the PD carbs work.  The carbs work fine in stock form.  I think most of the complaints about these carbs come from bike modifiers who just think about style before function.
Anyway, the carbs are fine and work as well as if not better than the earlier carb style.  They are not as "sloppy" as the earlier carbs, and modifiers don't have to tailor the earlier carbs function as finely as the PD's require.  Earlier bikes had a more open exhaust and the carbs were jetted "fat" originally.  The PD's were closely matched to the exhaust requirements.
Once you get the pilot jet clear, these carbs run sweet on a stock bike.  But, they need the same things done to them as the earlier carbs if you mess about with air filter and exhaust changes.

If you're just ichin' to hack up that pretty stocker, then do whatever you want.  The PD carb style does the same things the earlier ones do, just with different internal parts.  (The Cb550 never had accelerator pumps, btw, on any model.)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline cabrala

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 02:19:19 PM »
Only because I am looking to rebuild my PD's and can only seem to find parts for every other carb. The search is still very new to me so hopefully I'll hit upon some gold mine for the '78. I know I need the bowls and floats. I don't know what my jets look like and just need to tear into and get cleaning. .

Two tired, I'd like to keep my '77 as stock as possible and modify the '78 I've got in pieces. I'm very much itching to get into it so I am just going to see what I have now and determine whether or not I can salvage the existing carbs. I think I am trying to figure it all out before I get into it. (stop thinking, start working!)

Thanks for the replies. I definitely don't want to go back, I just want some knowledge on whether the carbs were good or if they were just thrown on for emissions
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

Need a better, newer points cover gasket? How about rubber washers for the headlight bucket? Click the link below:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=122308.0

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 03:15:32 PM »
The PD carb internals are metal, the only rubber parts are in the Idle mixture screw circuit and the bowl seal (orings).

Is there a reason why you need to replace the metal parts?  Corrosion, or mad man wielding implements of destruction?  If the stock parts aren't physically damaged, reuse them, the same way you would reuse a cylinder block, wrist pin, or camshaft.

Quote
I just want some knowledge on whether the carbs were good or if they were just thrown on for emissions
Well, they were introduced for emissions reasons, in that they provide much better control of fuel metering.  It was a baby step on the way toward fuel injection and computer controls for more modern machines.
You seem to imply some negative connotations with the PD carbs, and I have to disagree.  They were a refinement more closely tailored to the engine needs with the provided exhaust and met import emissions standards.
The 77-78 Cb550s with PD carbs got 5-10 MPG better than previous years and had the same power.  What exactly is there to complain about?

As for parts, recall that the PD's were the least populous carb for the 500/550 line.  Not too surprising that the internet tends to ignore their existence, as there is minimal sales revenue expected.  But, that doesn't mean they don't have the parts, you may have to call some places to determine if parts are available.  Although, I expect major cast parts like entire carb bowls will have to come from a donor carb set.  But, that's likely true for the earlier carbs, as well.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline cabrala

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 04:13:08 PM »
Hey Lloyd, I really appreciate the time to explain the history behind the carbs. I have definitely had some negative views toward the PD because I felt as though it was just a cheap fix to meet regulations. I also assumed that the popuarity of the earlier carbs spoke to the distaste for these later years.

I am not in a hurry to get this particular project completed as I just want to learn and understand the mechanics of how these things work. I'm a 23 yr. old kid trying to understand bikes 10 and 11 years older than myself. I am going to have fun wrenching and will see what comes of it.

I have a call into Matt at TAS for some bowls but can you direct me to some more sites for these parts? I'll check the FAQ but I wasn't sure if there were some favorites.

Again, I thank everyone for the help.
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

Need a better, newer points cover gasket? How about rubber washers for the headlight bucket? Click the link below:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=122308.0

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 06:22:07 PM »
I have definitely had some negative views toward the PD because I felt as though it was just a cheap fix to meet regulations.
It's hard for me to imagine that engineering, tooling, and developing an entire new carb set as "cheap".  I don't believe there are any parts that interchange with the earlier carbs.  The basic PD carb design was also applied to the Cb750 and Cb650's.  However, it could have been done so as to make using the earlier carbs very difficult, keeping field mods to minimum.  There was a lot folklore documenting autos losing HP with emission devices done poorly in the early days.  Lots of that bled over to the Honda buyers who expected that MCs would take a similar path.  I think Honda was smarter about that.

I am going to have fun wrenching and will see what comes of it.
I'm all for that. Have you seen the K3 chapter 19 additions to the CB500/550 Shop manual?

I have a call into Matt at TAS for some bowls but can you direct me to some more sites for these parts? I'll check the FAQ but I wasn't sure if there were some favorites.
Sorry, no shortcut help on buying parts from me.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline cabrala

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Re: Carbs, Carbs and More Carbs
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 06:37:53 PM »
"Cheap" was probably not the right word but nevertheless I definitely lacked an understanding of these later carbs which you are helping to fill in for me. I have downloaded the entire manual including the K3 addendum.

My plan was to cafe a bike and once I realized how nice my 77 was stock, I turned my attention to the 78. I'd like to get it running properly and therefore starting with replacing missing engine covers, carb bowls, etc. I guess my newness led me to believe everything was interchangeable on the bike from 74 to 78.

I'll be on the lookout for parts though and searching through the forum for more and more knowledge.
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

Need a better, newer points cover gasket? How about rubber washers for the headlight bucket? Click the link below:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=122308.0