Topic: Front sprocket oil seal - replacement disaster!!!

[andy750]

First of all I had searched the forum archives and then asked for some up to date info on how easy it was to replace the front sprocket oil seal without splitting the cases. Easy I was told, piece of cake...just put in some screws and pull it out with vice grips. Great I thought Ill do this in the morning and go for a ride in the afternoon....

So I started with this and I suspected it was leaking just enough oil to coat the number 2 lower pipe and leave a thin film in the rear wheel rim and sprocket. Nothing too bad but messy and it bugged me. I already verified it wasnt the gear shift cover as I had just replaced that and it was tight:



The screw method gave zero results even with me pulling on it hard...Mark (Nancy) had told me not to be so gentle with it and just cut it out or something like that....so with that in my head I ended up drilling a few holes in the seal to try and get more leverage:



No change so I drilled a few more:



By this time I was panicking...it still wasnt coming out.....I had taken a good running bike and here I was drilling too close to the cases! Panic set in and I imagined Id be pulling the engine (for the millionth time) just to sort out a drilled case  ....so no way back but to go forward:



Finally it came out with much swearing on my part





Great now time to put the new one in....of course I thought I didnt have to pull the gear cover (the one I had just sealed tight the other week) and using Mike Riecks suggestion I covered the spline with tape, greased it up so the new seal would slide on without tearing...



But the seal got stuck at an angle and I ended up tearing it on the bottom side -I suspect the area in red nicked it:



and I didnt have a good angle due the gear cover being on. So...gear cover came off and now waiting for a new seal - MikeR just let me know he has a spare so this may be a short delay only. Hopefully someone can learn from me being an idiot and trying to cut corners. And this took me all day...missing a beautiful sunny day in January for a ride 

cheers
Andy

[tweakin]

Sorry to hear about your day Andy.  If you drink, have a beer and regroup...  good wishes your way.

[andy750]

Thanks Tweakin Ill get there in the end. And a beer is definitely in my near future
Cheers
Andy

[ekpent]

If you had it to do over is there a way you could think of to remove it maybe better/easier or was this example just harder maybe than some others machines might be. Never have done it,  yet.  Please report back with the final results and hope all goes well.   Eric

[Mooshie]

Oh Andy I am so sorry. I can't offer any help only sympathy. I too am chasing a oil leak on my 550--I hope yours gets resolved...

[andy750]

If you had it to do over is there a way you could think of to remove it maybe better/easier or was this example just harder maybe than some others machines might be. Never have done it,  yet.  Please report back with the final results and hope all goes well.   Eric

Eric I dont know what else I could have done. That seal was on tight and as I mentioned wasnt responding to simply being pulled out with screws. If I were to do it again Id try and apply some Hondabond around the leak first . Ill update this thread when its all back together and running. I am keeping my fingers crossed for a leak-free seal!

cheers
Andy

[andy750]

Oh Andy I am so sorry. I can't offer any help only sympathy. I too am chasing a oil leak on my 550--I hope yours gets resolved...

Thanks Mooshie I appreciate it and can offer my sympathy for your leaky 550. I have always had leaks in some form or another but looking at other threads (like Johnies and Simpson for example) I was inspired to try and fix this one. MikeR is also a great teacher and he has shown me that with patience anything is possible. Of course its good to see how he solves problems when things go pear-shaped for him

Good luck with your 550 and I hope you are still enjoying it as much!

cheers
Andy

[Johnie]

Andy...sorry to hear you had so much trouble. The dang thing looks like an oversized shifter shaft seal. Do you think that area you have circled in red caused the problem not only going in but also coming out? Any way to smooth out the red circled area and then maybe use some Hondabond on that area when you put it back in?

[Johnie]

And excellent pics there Andy!!! I think once done this should be put in the FAQ section. Great tutorial for future reference. I would suspect the Honda service manual would not require the cases to be split for this job.

[chewbacca5000]

Andy,

Sorry for your trouble things like this usually drive me bonkers!  One think you might want to try is making your self a "shoe horn" to slide that seal over the area in the red circle.  You should be able to cut an aluminum can with a pair of scissor making sure you have a nice clean edge.  Then put that over the ridge and try sliding on, or the smoothing it out.

After reading this I think I need a beer!  Thanks for posting was wondering how hard of a job this is. Now I know.

[mick750F]

   Oooof!! That was one ugly operation Dr. Mangler. You're not still thinking of becoming a surgeon...right? Right!? Hell Andy, I'd have been out on the road on something else as soon as that seal started causing trouble...like before I started messin' with it!  Ha ha...just havin' some phun, sorry 'bout your pet seal....

Mike

[Spanner 1]

I think anyone that works on their bike has had a day like yours today Andy ... and the more perfect the riding day, the more Murphy's Law applies ( Bloody Irish  ).

[madmtnmotors]

If you had it to do over is there a way you could think of to remove it maybe better/easier or was this example just harder maybe than some others machines might be. Never have done it,  yet.  Please report back with the final results and hope all goes well.   Eric

Eric I dont know what else I could have done. That seal was on tight and as I mentioned wasnt responding to simply being pulled out with screws. If I were to do it again Id try and apply some Hondabond around the leak first . Ill update this thread when its all back together and running. I am keeping my fingers crossed for a leak-free seal!

cheers
Andy

    Sorry to hear the seal was so stubborn. We've all had one (or many more) simple tasks go south quick. Now that you have the seal out (hindsight is 20/20) you can look at how the seal is constructed and how much room there is behind the seal. A seal with this much surface area often responds well to a slit in the surface that would permit a prying force (i.e. wide blade screwdriver or small prybar/seal puller) to extract the seal. Of course that's hard to see until most of the seal has been pulled (or drilled) away.

    I had my own simple chore go south today, rebuilding a sticky fishing reel, two and a half hours into the chore I realize one of the six needle bearing rollers is gone! On the verge of tossing the whole pile of parts in the trash (the time I had already spent was probably worth more than a replacement reel) I decide to cut a new needle roller from the chuck end of a drill bit. Hardened steel AND I can still use the drill bit (it's just a little shorter now, needle roller was only .1875 in long). Worked like a champ.

    Step back, catch your breath, and think it through. Go get a cold drink, pet the dog, and regroup. My own mistakes usually are how I learn the most valueable lessons.

 

[andy750]

Thanks guys for all the kind words. My day just kept heading south ending now with dinner...I thought Id be adventurous tonight and try pan seared wasabi salmon....well it started off ok but then it started burning and before I knew it the kitchen/hallways were thick in smoke, the alarm was going off, the neighbours were coming home just as I opened the door to let all the smoke out etc etc...burnt salmon and rice dinner for me 

Hey tomorrows another day...

[ekpent]

Hope Today is Better than yesterday Andy     Poor fish  --------

[knowsnothing]

Wow Andy!  And to think I actually believed that you knew what you were doing!!   

[andy750]

Wow Andy!  And to think I actually believed that you knew what you were doing!!   

Thats just the impression I give

Today is another day and it started off better than yesterday with my check engine oil light going out on my Subaru Outback limited after I replaced the gas cap - hurray for easy fixes!!!

[754]

When you remove them with the screw method, a few tips;
 Try toget near the shoulder of the seal, the metal doesa not always go as far out as you mat think.
 The further from the outer cedge, the more chance of it simply bending, or tearing out..rather than putting the force on the outside edge of seal.
 I try to use a claw  hammer against the shaft, select proper screw length, this will help pull in correct direction. This is a dificult area to reach, you may have to use a very small hammer for tacks, or make somrthing to pull the screws.

 If you made a bushing or driver that fit firly closely over the shaft,(must match OD and have relief for seal lips), then iserting seal would be easier as any cocking of the driver or misdirecting blows would not get transferred to the seal.. the driver, not be able to cock, would keep driving the seal straight.

 Also working at eye level helps on rthis one, either get bike up or get on your side ( yeah I can hear the creaking)

 Not saying IK have done these in the bike, just passing on some tips of the approach I weould take to doing it.. its a tricky one..

[70CB750]

You could use the seal driver on the old seal. Just hammer the old seal in for a fraction of an inch. It breaks the bond and than you can pull it out.

Sometimes the straight route is not the easiest.

[fmctm1sw]

I had one of those seals pop out on me when I was riding one day.  Got  home and found oil all over the bottom rear portion of the bike.  I pushed it back in and ended up replacing it later.  Real easy to get out 

Oops, my memory failed me,  It was my gear shifter shaft seal that popped out...   

[Freaky1]

Thanks guys for all the kind words. My day just kept heading south ending now with dinner...I thought Id be adventurous tonight and try pan seared wasabi salmon....well it started off ok but then it started burning and before I knew it the kitchen/hallways were thick in smoke, the alarm was going off, the neighbours were coming home just as I opened the door to let all the smoke out etc etc...burnt salmon and rice dinner for me 

Hey tomorrows another day...

Man after a day in the garage like that and then you take on fish, wow I'm impressed! Usually after I've had days like yours I spend the evening curled in the fetal position on the floor mumbling quietly. 

[andy750]

Yeah the fish was definitiely the last straw....I can still see the thick smog of fog  and my clothes stink of fish...not a good way to end the day.

Thanks Frank for this tips - very useful. I have a driver I can use - a 22 mm or 24 mm socket that fits over the shaft and goes all the way down. But issue this past time as getting access to it when gear cover was still on (its now off so hopefully easier for round 2). I am going to try some duct tape on the lip as well so the seal cant tear in the same spot and see if this helps. Sort of what chewbacca5000 was suggesting but with duct tape...may stick, may not...we`ll see.

Thanks all!
cheers
Andy

[bikerbart]

I did this twice in one week,a seal puller is a great investment.I did it just like you did,man it was a #$%* to get out,but once I did the second time was a breeze.Sorry for your frustration,a lot of us have been there many times.

[lucky]

Next time use a seal removal tool.

It will still be just fine .

[Johnie]

How about someone posting a pic of the seal removal tool. This may end up in the FAQ area.