Author Topic: Powder Coating Engine (Read 16127 times)

Cain74 · « **on:** January 30, 2012, 12:56:46 pm »

Is it a bad idea to powder coat an engine? Does the powder coating act as too much of an insulator and the engine will overheat easily?

chewbacca5000 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2012, 01:55:02 pm »

Only would act as an insulator on the head and jugs. I use dupli coat ceramic brake caliper paint on these. They should be ok to powdercoat.

Cain74 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:51:12 am »

Has anybody powder coated their engine?

Ernest T · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2012, 04:16:01 pm »

You can powder coat everything but the cylinder--use high temp powder coating.

Cain74 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2012, 07:28:49 am »

Ernest - Just a clarification, use high temp powder on everything and don't coat the cylinder with anything or use regular powder on the everything and high temp powder on the cylinder.

I read somewhere that black powder coat can actually lower the operating temp by 5 degrees over bare metal.

How hot do these bikes run, does anybody know?

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2012, 08:30:50 am »

Powder-coating the jug doesn't affect the heat dissipation. I did mine they came out nice.

Harsh · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2012, 10:56:22 am »

I am about to have all of my parts pc'd. I contacted a few distributors / manufacturers and they stated that regular pc can withstand up to 600 degrees. The reason I was asking because the only high temp pc color I could find was black and I was wanting something different. I don't believe our engines get near that temp. If they did they would probably turn into a molten pool of aluminum.

racemx51 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:15:08 am »

I do Powder Coating as part of my business and it can be put on your motor without a problem. Normal Powder or normal paint can both be used. Think of it this way, lets say its 110 in AZ one day with the sun beating down at 2 in the afternoon on a black car, how hot do you suppose that hood is? And you dont see that paint melting off.

It'll be fine, just dont use normal stuff on your exhaust pieces..

Ernest T · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:17:20 am »

Quote from: Cain74 on February 02, 2012, 07:28:49 am

Ernest - Just a clarification, use high temp powder on everything and don't coat the cylinder with anything or use regular powder on the everything and high temp powder on the cylinder.

I read somewhere that black powder coat can actually lower the operating temp by 5 degrees over bare metal.

How hot do these bikes run, does anybody know?

Use high temp everywhere, cases, head, side covers and the like. I wouldn't powder coat the cylinder even though high temp powder coating has a high melting point, something like 500 degrees F. It does get soft on he cylinder if you get it really hot and air cooled engines can get very hot. On a water cooled bike it'd be okay everywhere.

racemx51 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:26:28 am »

Ill go ahead and agree to disagree with this member..

KJ790 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:42:31 am »

Quote from: Ernest T on February 02, 2012, 11:17:20 am

Quote from: Cain74 on February 02, 2012, 07:28:49 am
Ernest - Just a clarification, use high temp powder on everything and don't coat the cylinder with anything or use regular powder on the everything and high temp powder on the cylinder.

I read somewhere that black powder coat can actually lower the operating temp by 5 degrees over bare metal.

How hot do these bikes run, does anybody know?

Use high temp everywhere, cases, head, side covers and the like. I wouldn't powder coat the cylinder even though high temp powder coating has a high melting point, something like 500 degrees F. It does get soft on he cylinder if you get it really hot and air cooled engines can get very hot. On a water cooled bike it'd be okay everywhere.

The head runs hotter than the cylinder. Why would you feel that coating the head is fine but not the cylinder?

MCRider · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:44:21 am »

Quote from: racemx51 on February 02, 2012, 11:26:28 am

Ill go ahead and agree to disagree with this member..

Agreed: Indy Powder Coating lists all engine parts in its price list incl cases, cylinder and head. I doubt that they would do that if they thought they would have to eat the product.
http://www.indypowdercoating.com/index.php?P=motorcycle

They do the Harley guys quite regularly.

Freaky1 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:59:23 am »

While it is true air cooled engines get hot I do not believe they get to 600 degrees. I have had some parts of these engines to 550 (no I'm not telling) and they do not melt or as best I can tell warp. I have read articles about powder coating and heat dissipation really depends on how the coating is applied. From what I remember, if it is applied too thick then you will not get good heat dissipation but a properly applied coat can really help move out the heat. My advice would be to find a quality company to do the work and go for it, if your going to pay for it make it worth it. Even if it is too thick it will not affect the temp of your motor enough to cause internal problems, unless you plan on riding in lots of parades on 100 degree days.

MCRider · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2012, 12:10:26 pm »

A quick Google search puts safe head temps at 220 to 250 deg F. I expect the head to be hotter than the cylinders.

Ernest T · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:51:48 pm »

I should have said head and cylinder. I've seen both get hot enough to soften powder coating, but hey its your bike.

racemx51 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2012, 04:57:13 pm »

Then you have a bad running bike.. Or sit way to much. Ive powder coated more things than I care to remember and a lot of which has been stock car engines, bike engines, all of that stuff.. A bike motor shouldnt get to over the 250 range.. Which is why I brought up the car in AZ thing.. A hood in 110 degree sunny heat will get that temp...

Lets just agree to disagree..

Cain74 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2012, 07:50:16 am »

racemx51 have you had any problems powder coating aluminum and getting bubbles in the finish because of out-gassing from the aluminum?

racemx51 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2012, 10:15:18 am »

Ive had it happen a few times.. Mostly back when I started... The best answer I have for that is Aluminum heats faster than steel, etc. so sometimes with aluminum you dont need to cure for as long as if you were doing a steel frame or something like that. Try curing those pieces for less time, cut a 1/4 off of the time, if it still does it try 1/2 the time. I usually get away with about 3/4 of the time.. You just need to treat it with ease for a little while after.. Most likely that would be the problem other than obvious things that make bubbles like improper cleaning, etc..

If anyone else has any situations, feel free to chime in.. But for me personally, outgassing with aluminum is usually related to it being too hot for too long while curing.. Aluminum cant stand the heat steel can, cut the cure time..

Ernest T · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:20:42 pm »

Quote from: racemx51 on February 02, 2012, 04:57:13 pm

Then you have a bad running bike.. Or sit way to much. Ive powder coated more things than I care to remember and a lot of which has been stock car engines, bike engines, all of that stuff.. A bike motor shouldnt get to over the 250 range.. Which is why I brought up the car in AZ thing.. A hood in 110 degree sunny heat will get that temp...

Lets just agree to disagree..

I don't mind disagreeing. I haven't seen everything!

Stev-o · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2015, 05:46:29 am »

Quote from: Harsh on February 02, 2012, 10:56:22 am

I am about to have all of my parts pc'd. I contacted a few distributors / manufacturers and they stated that regular pc can withstand up to 600 degrees. The reason I was asking because the only high temp pc color I could find was black and I was wanting something different. I don't believe our engines get near that temp. If they did they would probably turn into a molten pool of aluminum.

Harsh.....so, did you PC your engine and if so, how did it hold up long term?

I'm starting an H2 rebuild and the engine case is filthy and has minor corrosion in areas. I dropped the cylinders off to get bored and blasted, will have the case blasted too. The shop suggested PC so now I am considering it.

Anyone else do it?

calj737 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2015, 09:28:49 am »

Every bike I have rebuilt has a fully powder coated engine. There is insufficient thickness of the media to effect in a negative fashion the thermals of the motor. Powder cost is only a few mils thick, and will very likely be much thinner than hand-applied paint.

I choose to use a thermal dispersant coating on the head/cylinder parts (anywhere cooling fins are) only because I prefer to do everything possible to aide in engine cooling.

Melting aluminum at 600*? Not a chance! To weld aluminum takes about 2,000*. No motorcycle motor is going to produce sustained surface temps of 500-600*. That's complete BS. If someone "has seen alloy motors get hot enough to soften powder coat" then either it was a crap job of PC, complete horse-hockey myth, or it was a phenomenon.

There's my $0.25

Stev-o · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:59:20 pm »

Quote from: calj737 on July 17, 2015, 09:28:49 am

Every bike I have rebuilt has a fully powder coated engine. There is insufficient thickness of the media to effect in a negative fashion the thermals of the motor. Powder cost is only a few mils thick, and will very likely be much thinner than hand-applied paint.

Thanks for your .25, Cal, I value your opinion [I had planned to PM you].
The Kaw Triple motors came unpainted from the factory, and that is a finish that does not stand up over the years.

When I rebuilt the H1, I just cleaned the cases, but the cylinders and heads were blasted and left natural, and I just dont care for the look, so this one will be done differently.

Now I just have to pick a color...

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:11:22 pm »

My coater does clear over his base.

calj737 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:18:30 pm »

Quote from: Stev-o on July 17, 2015, 01:59:20 pm

The Kaw Triple motors came unpainted from the factory, and that is a finish that does not stand up over the years.
When I rebuilt the H1, I just cleaned the cases, but the cylinders and heads were blasted and left natural, and I just dont care for the look, so this one will be done differently.
Now I just have to pick a color...

Stev-o, I would vapor blast the motor if you are looking for a "restore" level finish. I have gsxr fork tubes, hubs, a seat hoop and a final drive from my BMW project heading off to Arnold's Desgin in PA for this exact finish. It's a preened finish, and it's simply gorgeous! The motor is wrinkle coat and thermal dispersant, but I wanted the forks/wheels to retain a stockish appearance.

Costs just about the same as PC. But looks unbelievable-

Powderman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2015, 03:22:24 pm »

Just to touch base on a few of the posts. Standard powder an withstand "spikes" of 100* above cure temp (normally 400*). Those of you have gotten your powder hot and it got soft again are dealing with powder that was never fully cured. Once the powder is fully cured it become a hard plastic and will not soften up at temp.
Every part can be coat ed on the engine. Though not a motorcycle the B18 V-Tec motor in my CRX is completely powder coated, everything on it.
I have found high temp powders are too finicky to deal with and have a tendency to flake off after a short time. Go to a high pressure car wash and watch the stuff blow right off. If I need high temp capabilities I opt for ceramic. Don't even offer the high temp powders anymore.
If applied properly there is no issue with heat dissipation and black will dissipate heat faster than other colors.
While aluminum and steel heat up at different rates the times and temps for curing based on PMT (part metal temp), you don't go by how hot the oven is, but how hot the part is. Use and IR temp gun to check the temp of the part and then start your timer when the part s 400*. A thin sheet of steel may heat in 5 minutes while a solid steel wheel may take an hour to get to temp.
Outgassing is when cast parts are cooling in the mold the pores closed and trap gasses and casting debris. When we put these parts into a 400* oven these pores open when the metal gets hot and expands releasing all this debris and gasses into your melting powder, only to be redone.
Outgas bubbles are only a concern on "cast" parts and can be avoided by putting the part in the oven at 500* for an hour. This will ensure that any pours that can open at 400 have already been opened and purged. This step should be taken after the part has been cleaned but before the media blast step. That way when you blast you will be removing all the released debris and be ready for coating. Some items like wheels and parts that have seen a lot of slat water or salt form the roads are difficult to stop the outgassing of salt. We have primers that are applied to the part at 462* and cures in one minute before the outgas bubbles can rear their ugly head and seals the surface for your top coat of powder.

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Author Topic: Powder Coating Engine (Read 16127 times)