Topic: Powder Coating Engine

[Powderman]

The Kaw Triple motors came unpainted from the factory, and that is a finish that does not stand up over the years.
When I rebuilt the H1, I just cleaned the cases, but the cylinders and heads were blasted and left natural, and I just dont care for the look, so this one will be done differently.
Now I just have to pick a color...

Stev-o, I would vapor blast the motor if you are looking for a "restore" level finish. I have gsxr fork tubes, hubs, a seat hoop and a final drive from my BMW project heading off to Arnold's Desgin in PA for this exact finish. It's a preened finish, and it's simply gorgeous! The motor is wrinkle coat and thermal dispersant, but I wanted the forks/wheels to retain a stockish appearance.

Costs just about the same as PC. But looks unbelievable-

Did you mean "preened" or do you mean "Peened" Vapor blasting uses a slurry of cold soapy water mixed with glass beads (not crushed glass media) It actually "peens" the surface and hardens it and gives it a nice aluminum sheen to the finish that repels oils and dirt unlike blasted aluminum that if you drop a drop of oil on and come back an hour later that drop has grown to a 2" spot.
This is who did my engine, good work, reasonably priced:

http://www.vaporblasting.biz/How_to_Order_Vaporblasting.html

[calj737]

Fat fingered: peened. Thanks PM!

[Stev-o]

Great info guys, thanks for chiming in. A quick google search turned up no vapor blasting in Austin, but a whole lot of head shops that sell vapor smoking crap, no thanks. 

Since I have decided to PC the motor, (cases, cyl and heads) what would the difference be  as far as appearance to the finished aluminum? The color I envision is a medium aluminum color, slightly darker than the CB's stock color.

[Powderman]

Fat fingered: peened. Thanks PM!

I blame spellcheck. I meant "you mean" not yeoman.

[Powderman]

Great info guys, thanks for chiming in. A quick google search turned up no vapor blasting in Austin, but a whole lot of head shops that sell vapor smoking crap, no thanks. 

Since I have decided to PC the motor, (cases, cyl and heads) what would the difference be  as far as appearance to the finished aluminum? The color I envision is a medium aluminum color, slightly darker than the CB's stock color.

There really are a only a handful of places that do it in the states. The place I sighted told me he didn't care if anyone else wanted to get into the biz. But they better do it as a side or addition to an existing business because there isn't that heavy of a call to do it and the equipment is expensive.

[Retro Rocket]

Do you guys have wet blasting, leaves a great finish thats resilient and lasts for years.......

http://www.wetblasting.net/apps/photos/

[Stev-o]

Do you guys have wet blasting, leaves a great finish thats resilient and lasts for years.......

http://www.wetblasting.net/apps/photos/

I believe it's the same as vapor blasting. 

Mick - what is your opinion on PC for engines?

[Restoration Fan]

http://www.wetblasting.net/apps/photos/

Look at the photos of that 750/4 engine that was vapor blasted there.  Talk about sexy! 

[calj737]

Stev-o ship your stuff off to this guy-
http://www.arnoldsdesign.com/Vapor-Blastin.html

A quick pic of a before and after

[Lostboy Steve]

Just to touch base on a few of the posts. Standard powder an withstand "spikes" of 100* above cure temp (normally 400*). Those of you have gotten your powder hot and it got soft again are dealing with powder that was never fully cured. Once the powder is fully cured it become a hard plastic and will not soften up at temp.
Every part can be coat ed on the engine. Though not a motorcycle the B18 V-Tec motor in my CRX is completely powder coated, everything on it.
I have found high temp powders are too finicky to deal with and have a tendency to flake off after a short time. Go to a high pressure car wash and watch the stuff blow right off. If I need high temp capabilities I opt for ceramic. Don't even offer the high temp powders anymore.
If applied properly there is no issue with heat dissipation and black will dissipate heat faster than other colors.
While aluminum and steel heat up at different rates the times and temps for curing based on PMT (part metal temp), you don't go by how hot the oven is, but how hot the part is. Use and IR temp gun to check the temp of the part and then start your timer when the part s 400*. A thin sheet of steel may heat in 5 minutes while a solid steel wheel may take an hour to get to temp.
Outgassing is when cast parts are cooling in the mold the pores closed and trap gasses and casting debris. When we put these parts into a 400* oven these pores open when the metal gets hot and expands releasing all this debris and gasses into your melting powder, only to be redone.
Outgas bubbles are only a concern on "cast" parts and can be avoided by putting the part in the oven at 500* for an hour. This will ensure that any pours that can open at 400 have already been opened and purged. This step should be taken after the part has been cleaned but before the media blast step. That way when you blast you will be removing all the released debris and be ready for coating. Some items like wheels and parts that have seen a lot of slat water or salt form the roads are difficult to stop the outgassing of salt. We have primers that are applied to the part at 462* and cures in one minute before the outgas bubbles can rear their ugly head and seals the surface for your top coat of powder.

I agree. I'm going 3 years strong on powdercoated cylinders and head. Standard Prismatic Powder cured at 400* for 20 minutes. Not a single issue at all. Even withstood an oil leak during the first few months.

[Stev-o]

Stev-o ship your stuff off to this guy-
http://www.arnoldsdesign.com/Vapor-Blastin.html

A quick pic of a before and after

That does look good.  But, why vapor blast if I plan to PC?

[calj737]

instead of, not in addition to. Only because it's so dang pretty!

[Stev-o]

instead of, not in addition to. Only because it's so dang pretty!

Got it, it looks look good.  Any idea on cost for a case, cyls and heads?  Just curious how it compares to PC, the H2 will not be a budget build by any means. 

I'm still leaning towards PC, the parts are already at the shop, I can always VB the next one. 

[Retro Rocket]

Do you guys have wet blasting, leaves a great finish thats resilient and lasts for years.......

http://www.wetblasting.net/apps/photos/

I believe it's the same as vapor blasting. 

Mick - what is your opinion on PC for engines?

Wet blasting is different to vapor blasting guys, this is from Wayne's site... 

We use a revolutionary low pressure Wet Blasting system ( Not Vapour Blasting )

which was developed by one of the world's leading aircraft engine manafacturers.

Steve, I know a guy that does custom powdercoating, his engine coatings are good and I will be powdercoating my number 3 engine at some stage, here's a link to his site, his work is excellent.., like any good coating/ Paint, its all in the prep and application...

http://www.robertoscustompowder.com.au/gallery-moto/

[Powderman]

Stev-o ship your stuff off to this guy-
http://www.arnoldsdesign.com/Vapor-Blastin.html

A quick pic of a before and after

That does look good.  But, why vapor blast if I plan to PC?

Don't, it will not leave a proper texture for the powder. Vapor Blasting is an option if that's the finish you want. It's easier to keep clean than bare aluminum.

[Powderman]

Mick, maybe you can explain how they are different. Vapor Blasting uses a slurry of soapy water and glass beads. How does wet blasting differ?
Pricing on VB is cheaper or equivalent to powder coating

[Retro Rocket]

Mick, maybe you can explain how they are different. Vapor Blasting uses a slurry of soapy water and glass beads. How does wet blasting differ?
Pricing on VB is cheaper or equivalent to powder coating

Low pressure as opposed to high pressure, developed by Rolls Royce in england for the aerospace industry, it has a more effective shot peening process. The surface needs no other finishing and lasts for years...

[Stev-o]

Thanks for all the info, guys,almost overwhelming.

I'm going to PC the entire motor.

[Retro Rocket]

Thanks for all the info, guys,almost overwhelming.

I'm going to PC the entire motor.

I'm going to also look into ceracote, {the wet blasting put me onto him},  apparently theres a guy now doing it near where I live, its so thin its measured in microns and there are a number of different blacks to choose from....

[Powderman]

Read this page from my Vapor Blasters web site. It answers a lot of questions including pricing. Each large aluminum part on a Brit bike is blasted for only $29. I can't powder coat them for that. Mick, I'm not sure what the pressures are being used on wet or vapor.
http://www.vaporblasting.biz

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Read this page from my Vapor Blasters web site. It answers a lot of questions including pricing. Each large aluminum part on a Brit bike is blasted for only $29. I can't powder coat them for that. Mick, I'm not sure what the pressures are being used on wet or vapor.
http://www.vaporblasting.biz

Jeff,

Good info on the site, including tips for packaging and shipping parts.  It sounds like with a 550 or 750, you typically have to soak the engine parts in kerosene -- and that you need to have the cylinder studs removed to get them into your blasting cabinet, correct?

[Retro Rocket]

Read this page from my Vapor Blasters web site. It answers a lot of questions including pricing. Each large aluminum part on a Brit bike is blasted for only $29. I can't powder coat them for that. Mick, I'm not sure what the pressures are being used on wet or vapor.
http://www.vaporblasting.biz

I spoke to Wayne yesterday, he said there were quite a few differences in wet blasting when compared to Vapor blasting, some things he's developed himself, there are only 2 guys I know of doing this here in Australia and he guards some of his techniques closely. He does a lot of very high end stuff on Vintage Ferrari's and Rolls Royce restorations as well as a lot of other cool stuff, he has a small circle of very good contacts as well, he highly recommended my powder coat guy and put me on to a really good Chrome plater, they are bloody hard to find here.... Sorry but he was a bit light on detail as he doesn't want to give too much away. I was interested to hear he used his wet blasting on the inside of fork legs, that would be fun...

[Powderman]

My motor sat dry for 37 years after a fresh build. I was absolutely amazed when I pulled it out after all that time to find the cylinder bores not rusted to heck, but looking as though it was honed yesterday with fresh crosshatch clearly visible. I was glad to find before I fired it that unlike the cylinders walls, the insides of the aluminum cases were not as pristine and were in fact completely corroded and oxidized. I was able to vapor blast the whole inside of the motor with out fear of any residual damage done from a normal dry blast procedure which would embed particles in the surface that normal washing may not remove and will free themselves when the motor gets hot. You can vapor blast valve guides and bearing surfaces without damage or material being removed. It was the perfect solution for my issue.
Plus it gave me the added benefit of the exterior finish I wanted because as much as I like a freshly blasted aluminum surface, it is nearly impossible to keep it looking that nice. If you drop a quarter inch drop of oil on blasted aluminum and come back in an hour that 1/4" drop has spread to 3". Vapor blasted surface is seal and Sharpie pen will wash off with alcohol.