Author Topic: Welding Magnesium Campagnolo Wheels (Read 12481 times)

Darvill Racing · « **on:** February 03, 2012, 01:58:56 PM »

Evening All,
I have a pair of damaged original18” Magnesium Campagnolo’s from the 70's. The front is a MT2.5 18 with a crack in the rim edge (horizontally) and another slightly larger one on the main outer ring (between the struts), the rear is a MT3.5 18 with a crack on the main outer ring (similar to the front).

With my limited knowledge Campags were made with AZ91D Magnesium alloy and rather leaving these on the shelf i would like to know if i can get these repaired and use them on one of the race bikes we don’t use for competition and release a set of ‘race’ wheels for the 2013 bike we are building.

Anyone out there have any suggestions/ideas/advice...?

Regards,
Alex

Jim F · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2012, 02:08:39 PM »

you might want to give these guys a call or E-mail
I have some EPM magnesium wheels that needed some new cush drive rubbers
and they where able to supply me with some.
They have replacement wheels and I think they might have the campy wheels also
Not sure if they can repair these as they are very tricky to weld.

but give them a try and see what happens

Here is the web address

http://www.magni.it/epm_6_razze.htm

good luck

Jim

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2012, 02:13:35 PM »

Cheers Jim,
Will drop them a line.

Regards,
A

Jim F · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2012, 02:18:43 PM »

Let me know I might have a place here in the states that can help also

Jim

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2012, 02:37:28 PM »

Will do Jim,
Been looking at their site and some heavy use of Google translator and they don't mention repair anywhere.

Ive met this team at the Bol d'Or Classic last year, they were nipping at our heals 7 seconds down at the end of the first race.

Ive sent them an email so fingers crossed.... it would be a shame to not use them for something.

Regards,
A

simon#42 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:58:17 PM »

use them for a door stop , dont put them anywhere near a motorbike .

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2012, 04:16:14 PM »

My thoughts as well Simon, not worth the risk at high speed Alex especially the prolonged high speeds that you put the endurance bikes through, not worth the risk at all mate.

Sam.

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2012, 04:24:17 PM »

Wasn't going to use them for racing...

I have 3 other sets that have been crack tested and re-coated (which we have used for the last few years), i wanted to use these on one of the static bikes that may do the odd parade...

Regards,
A

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2012, 04:59:17 PM »

OK Alex, I know a guy in Warrington that has welded magnesum but I'n not sure if his skills strech to cast magnesium. I'll give him a ring in the morning but I have a sneaky feeling it will be a NO.

Sam. $:-\$

NickO · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:04:52 PM »

Looks like it's not only me who is a "night-owl" here in the UK!

I'm not sure I'd want to ride on those rims, even in a parade?

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:10:17 PM »

And us UK night owls are both in the NW....

Maybe its an idea to get them repaired and coated and leave them with some old slicks on just for show.

Rock Store · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:11:20 PM »

Our Ducati wheels ,cast & forged magnesium are repaired by this great shop in the USA,
http://www.framestraightsystem.com
In Europe the guys use,
http://tcps-magnesium-refurbs.com.uk/

Dom

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:19:31 PM »

Hi Dom,
Interestingly TCPS did the crack testing, I've used Steve for all our wheels.
I will give him a bell as he hasn't mentioned repair before.

Thanks for the heads-up

Regards,
A

NickO · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:29:56 PM »

There is a link on his website to the subcontractor he uses for repairs:

It's these guys near York - http://www.ianjemison.co.uk/wheelrepairs.html

N.B. The link to the refinishers (Steve) should be:

http://tpcs-magnesium-refurbs.co.uk/services.php

Good luck, they seem to have a nice set-up?

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:49:02 PM »

LOL...
I havent been on Steve's site since just after it went live, the other 3 sets of our Campag's are in the gallery:
http://tpcs-magnesium-refurbs.co.uk/bike-wheel-gallery.php

And he certainly didn't have the ling to Ian Jemison....

Thanks to you all, will get on and get these wheels back to him... bugger, could have saved a lot of carriage costs...

;o)

Regards,
A

lucky · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2012, 08:26:04 PM »

Quote from: Darvill Racing on February 03, 2012, 01:58:56 PM

Evening All,
I have a pair of damaged original18” Magnesium Campagnolo’s from the 70's. The front is a MT2.5 18 with a crack in the rim edge (horizontally) and another slightly larger one on the main outer ring (between the struts), the rear is a MT3.5 18 with a crack on the main outer ring (similar to the front).

With my limited knowledge Campags were made with AZ91D Magnesium alloy and rather leaving these on the shelf i would like to know if i can get these repaired and use them on one of the race bikes we don’t use for competition and release a set of ‘race’ wheels for the 2013 bike we are building.

Anyone out there have any suggestions/ideas/advice...?

Regards,
Alex

Yes that type magnesium (AZ91D) is a common cast magnesium.
It can be TIG welded using AC just like aluminum.
But the real problem with magnesium is hot cracking.
The weldment would have to be warmed up ,welded and immediately buried in warm dry sand to help prevent cracking. Or some other post heating treatment.
It all depends on where the crack is located and the direction of the crack. If a spoke is cracked,forget about it. There is always shrinkage and expansion.

It is risky depending where the crack is located.
Getting the filler material if any is needed would be expensive for a small amount.
The best out come would be with electron beam welding.

I just do not think a weld on those wheels is worth while.
And what if you die and those wheels are on a motorcycle and someone uses it?

I do not think any competent welder would weld a cracked spoke in a wheel. maybe a chipped edge.
Also if you have cracks, you can see the next question is ,are there other cracks that are not easily visable and were the rims on involved in an accident?

There are many articles written about repairs on this AZ91D alloy.

I am a certified welder and a certified welding inspector.

simon#42 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2012, 01:49:56 AM »

unfortunately the cracks you can see are probably only the tip of the iceberg , i had a couple of sets of campags and although on the outside they were fine ,they looked like a map of the london underground when x-rayed . as lucky said i dont think you will find anyone reputable to weld them . dymags seem to last better but after this i went back to spoke or astralite wheels on my older racing bikes , make sure you destroy the wheels though alex , i saw one collapse at chimay while they were bump starting a bike [ not a campag ] that could have ended up much much worse .

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2012, 05:57:41 AM »

Alex, my welder says the same, it can be welded but when is the next crack going rear it ugly head.
Sounds like it's a static display bike at best but then you'll useing a lot more parts to make a cracked pair of wheels look like a good machine that you know can't be used.
Even if used for demo laps, the risk is always going to be in the back of your mind, and if you're not the rider at the time, remember, WHERE THERE IS BLAME THERE IS A CLAIM, I think this thread serves as your risk assesment, I'll send you the bill for it later.

Regarding the night owls, there were four of us, one Manx, two Scousers and a Manc.

Simon42 and myself had just got home from Keith Heckles Birthday party in Liverpool, a great night out with the whos who of North West motorcycling in attendence.

Sam.

NickO · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2012, 06:31:36 AM »

Quote from: SamCR750A on February 04, 2012, 05:57:41 AM

...................................................
Simon42 and myself had just got home from Keith Heckles Birthday party in Liverpool, a great night out with the whos who of North West motorcycling in attendence.

Sam.

My invitation must have got lost in the post?

simon#42 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2012, 06:45:18 AM »

ahhhhh an oversight on my part im afraid , can we put it down to old age and stupidity ?

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2012, 06:57:27 AM »

I'm not sure where old age comes into it.

but that is my excuse when I forget something.

Sam.

specweld · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2012, 08:15:53 AM »

Alex,
while Sam is on the subject of old age, if these wheels are from the seventies I would not put them on a bike even if they had no surface cracks, as Simon says they are probably just the tip of the iceberg and the welding process can actually induce even more cracking.
Without going into to much detail (cyclic stresses, elastic deformation ,age hardening/microscopic cracking etc.) I think they are good for ornamental use only.

I do specialist welding for various companies for a living and one of my sidelines is alluminium wheel repair (done hundreds) but I wouldn't go near a mag wheel or any other part that is subject to load bearing stress.

Hope this helps

Dave

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2012, 09:36:40 AM »

Wow....
Thanks for all your time and info on this... Steve at TCPS has already x-ray'd these so I think I will leave them unpainted and stick the 30yr old slicks back on them and leave them on once of the 'static' bikes. These won't be ridden as I have decommissioned the Works RSC engines having discovered how expensive and problematic it is to run these (which is why we are moving to Kawasaki Z900 engines in 2013).
The whole aim of this was to free up some known good Campags (checked and re-coated) to use on the restored Endurance bike for 2013, ideally we would love to use Astralites but it appears the James at Team Glam has purchased them all.

Regards,
A

simon#42 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2012, 02:56:52 PM »

what sizes do you need alex ?

Darvill Racing · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2012, 10:14:34 PM »

Hi Simon,
Sizes wise we need something to fit 110/80/18 fronts and 150/70/18 rears

Regards,
Alex

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Author Topic: Welding Magnesium Campagnolo Wheels (Read 12481 times)