Author Topic: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...  (Read 13252 times)

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2012, 12:00:32 PM »
My "representatives" are Boxer, Fienstien and Matsui.

Fat lot of good writing to them will do me.

You got that right.  You should be sending them candy and hope for a more favorable er, "outcome".  ...Like a successor due to medical reasons.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Tree

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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2012, 08:06:36 AM »
Looks like it passed the House committee.

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/articles/8545/house-committee-members-industry-slam-effort-to-delay-e15
It sounds to me that Sensenbrenner "wants further research to be conducted"...;I'd like if there were a few gas stations around where I live that sell pure gasoline ;) ...or at least maybe 5% Ethanol..rather than 10+% Ethanol...and whatever else they're putting in there.I've done my own "research" on that. GIVE ME THE PURE PRODUCT Please !

How many of you members use that Startron ? Does it somehow change the chemical properties of the Ethanol to make it burn more like gasoline ??
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 08:09:24 AM by grcamna2 »
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Offline KRONUS0100

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2012, 08:54:46 AM »
WENT to link and mailed off letteters to state reps. why cant they leave well enuff alone?  i still think the so called gas crunch crisis of the late 70's was biggest joke the US GOVT played on its citizens.
MATT
current bikes:  1976 CB750F, 1981 GS1100E
bikes owned:1981 GL1100I, 1990 GS500E, 1981 GS850, 1977 and 1979 GS750, 1974 CB750, 1975 CB750, and a 1982 GS750E

Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2012, 09:01:43 AM »
Looks like it's time to check up on puregas.org or whatever it was...
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Offline lrutt

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2012, 09:05:33 AM »
Startron and the other additives do not change the ethanol per se. It's still there, still damaging orings, plastics, and everything else. Those additives just keep it and the moisture in suspension with the gasoling. Plain and simple.

Many people are under the misconception that these additives are actually 'getting rid of' or 'rendering harmless' the ethanol. NOT TRUE.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2012, 03:48:22 PM »
How about we get this thread back on message, that being the pros/cons of additional ethanol in fuels and the affects on our bikes.  ;)
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2012, 04:14:27 PM »
Hi Bob, i don't think that was the point of this particular thread, the pro's and cons have been gone over several times in other threads, this is more about the changes in the law regarding ethanol.
Corn products reach far and wide, not only in the fuel industry, i see no harm in this discussion covering all bases, {unless Mark has specifically complained} it is by no means an out of control discussion.... ;)
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2012, 04:37:56 PM »
I think the price for exported corn should be on par with imported oil...that way the farmers can make money with out having to produce the crap known as ethanol.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2012, 04:45:33 PM »
I think the price for exported corn should be on par with imported oil...that way the farmers can make money with out having to produce the crap known as ethanol.
+1 on that.
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  I love the small ones too !
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Offline apehanger 550

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2012, 05:08:59 AM »
  There is a dealer in Columbus, OH who supplied a BMW bike for a raffle. The bike hung from the rafters at a bar for 6 months or so and it was anticipated that there would be a nice bit of publicity when the bike was lowered to the ground and fired up. NOPE...
  The bike was prepped for storage by running it dry of fuel and the battery stored offsite, and the oil changed. After the fresh fuel was added, the bike did not start. The owner of the store told me that it was the worst mess of a carburetor he had ever seen. White corrosion has frozen the float valves,and it was a real mess.
  Bad stuff. So I guess I will take the 5 gallon containers to a place that sells no ethanol gas and add the Stabil ,Marvel, or whatever concoctions are discussed here.

Offline Raef

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2012, 05:33:35 AM »
I'm still not sure I understand what's going on here. The bill was introduced to have independent study for the vehicles from 2001-2006 that have been recently granted a waiver for use of E15, right?

The EPA isn't saying that vehicles before 2001 should use ethanol blended gasoline at all. Are we getting worked up over nothing or do we fear that all gasoline will eventually be E15?
what going on is this, the government ended certian subsistiies to the ethanol makers, and now they are trying to increase demand for this product so all the plants they gave huge grants to build don't go idle and to create a false demand to repay the pac's, super pac's and lobbyist  that line their pockets

Offline RFogelsong

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2012, 08:22:36 AM »
Anybody know of a site or list where they list stations who have a reputation for selling good/bad(e10 or whatever) gas?  I'd love to put the good stuff in if it's just as easy as driving another 5 miles.
-Rob

Hondas past/present:
SOHC1:'74 CB125, '78 XL125
DOHC2:'71 CB450K
SOHC4:'73 350F, '75 400F, '75 550K
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Offline Rgconner

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2012, 08:27:28 AM »
Anybody know of a site or list where they list stations who have a reputation for selling good/bad(e10 or whatever) gas?  I'd love to put the good stuff in if it's just as easy as driving another 5 miles.

http://pure-gas.org/
1975 CB550K aka "Grease Monkey"

Offline MoMo

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2012, 09:01:21 AM »
Anybody know of a site or list where they list stations who have a reputation for selling good/bad(e10 or whatever) gas?  I'd love to put the good stuff in if it's just as easy as driving another 5 miles.

http://pure-gas.org/



Thanks for the link. Although there are not  stations anywhere near me...Larry

Offline onepieceatatime

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »
Anybody know of a site or list where they list stations who have a reputation for selling good/bad(e10 or whatever) gas?  I'd love to put the good stuff in if it's just as easy as driving another 5 miles.

http://pure-gas.org/



Thanks for the link. Although there are not  stations anywhere near me...Larry

I also wish I could buy ethanol free gas, but people "wiser" than us have decided that E10 is the best thing out there and the only option we need.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2012, 12:32:28 PM »
The dietary aspects of HFC, etc. that were formerly embedded in this thread have been moved to the Open Forum. Please keep this thread on the tech topic of impacts of increased ethanol content in fuels.

Split topic is here; http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=102119.0
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 12:34:15 PM by Bob Wessner »
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Offline Freaky1

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2012, 12:37:41 PM »
Anybody know of a site or list where they list stations who have a reputation for selling good/bad(e10 or whatever) gas?  I'd love to put the good stuff in if it's just as easy as driving another 5 miles.

http://pure-gas.org/

Thanks again for the link, one of the stations on the list I used to work for, Duggan Petroleum, I know when I worked there we didn't go E and it's good to see that even though they were recently sold they are still "keeping it clean". I might be taking Gordon's advice soon, just to have a small stash of the good stuff on hand.
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Offline Charliedontsurf

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2012, 01:07:58 PM »
Gas stations in Alabama with no ethanol are pretty common



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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2012, 08:47:22 PM »
Gas stations in Alabama with no ethanol are pretty common



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Boy, Alabama just looks better and better to me....
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Offline Charliedontsurf

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2012, 08:55:15 PM »
Just wait till you see the property tax around here.

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2012, 06:33:45 PM »
So my lawnmower up and quit on me today.  It's been hard to start for the last two years when the primer button or bulb quit resuming natural shape/position.  It doesn't have a butterfly choke.  Probably due to "emissions" reasons and people running them with the choke on.  So, the "new" carbs have a primer instead, in an attempt to make the machine "smarter" than the people.

Anyway, to get the thing started I had resorted to removing the air filter and putting a knob into the intake to choke it.  I'd use my hand, but the starter pull is way up by the push handle for the mower.

Anyway, after mowing a while the thing quit like it had run out of gas...but there was still about a third of a tank left.  Pork.
So, I washed off the grime around the carb to find the bolts and screw heads, and took the carb apart.

Below is a picture of what the ethanol gas did to the rubber bulb/button primer.  I've turned it inside out over one of the carb bolts to expose the inner side to the air.  It does seem to be hardening, after an hour's exposure.  But, there are holes in it now, and it can't be restored to proper operation.
You'll note the rubber has turned into a thick grease or putty.  It's very sticky and what is coating my fingers.

There is also a large fiber reinforced "gasket" that goes in the join between tank and carb body as shown in the second picture.   It has not dissolved as the rubber bulb did, rather it has hardened and become brittle.   It was still sealing well enough, however there are two flapper valves that are part of the gasket.  I believe those valves are used to pump the fuel up from the larger tank and fill a smaller reservoir on top of the tank for carb jet feed.  Anyway, you might be able to see that one of those flappers is very hard and curled to the point where it won't seal anymore.

These seals, gaskets, and rubber parts weren't made for ethanol exposure and have failed due to its introduction into the common fuel supply.  I suppose many would just throw the mower away and buy a new one with all the new sales tax going to the state, and umpteen middle men making profit and paying income taxes on it, paying "disposal fees", etc.
But, I'll figure a way to fix it and have it serve once more, as it is only those tiny parts that keep it from being useful.  It's going to be tricky as the entire carb body is made of plastic that I'm sure carb cleaner will dissolve.

Thank you big corn, and the government, for making fail what would have taken 20 years to wear out with the proper fuel supply.   I'll now be getting leaded gas from the airport for my mowers, as it is the only gas in California that doesn't have mandated ethanol blended with it.  And yes, I know that it will be dumping lead into the air from my mowers for many years to come.  But, the unleaded fuel from the local station is poison for my machines.

I posted here so that you will see the internal affects that ethanol has on older carbs parts.  I feel certain the damage is not limited to only lawn mowers, by any machine made before the introduction of ethanol contamination into the fuel supply.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2012, 06:38:13 PM »
You're right all around, TT. I've taken to rebuilding these engines and carbs with Viton O-rings where fuel touches, as they will withstand it and not dissolve or dry out. But for the larger Buna rubber surfaces like in your carb, there isn't a lot of 'hope' to go along with this 'change'....
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2012, 09:19:08 PM »
We still have all types of fuel at the pump including E10, there are warnings on the E10 pumps telling you not to use it in any small engine or outboard marine engines, the stuff is crap....
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Offline ThomasD883

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Re: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2012, 08:19:29 AM »
I hate the ethanol blends as much as anybody BUT....., what happens when crude disappears and thats all we got?  Renewables ? Options? Whats the next option, im pretty keen on diesel, more bang for the buck, fuel economy etc.., its a good first step without forcing ethanol in our tanks.
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