Topic: Upcoming fuel changes: not so good...

[Retro Rocket]

I hate the ethanol blends as much as anybody BUT....., what happens when crude disappears and thats all we got?  Renewables ? Options? Whats the next option, im pretty keen on diesel, more bang for the buck, fuel economy etc.., its a good first step without forcing ethanol in our tanks.

I just read a report on fossil fuels and despite the fact that oil companies have been saying we have hit production peaks for years now, they haven't, in fact, they are finding massive reserves quite often through new drilling methods that allow the oil giants to put down wells far deeper than ever possible. Running out isn't going to happen in our lifetime...

[grcamna2]

+1 

[Really?]

Gas has sure gone up in the last week.

[VTCBike750]

Gas stations in Alabama with no ethanol are pretty common



Sent from my bedroom

Boy, Alabama just looks better and better to me....

Mark, I lived there for a few years. Id stay in Colorado.

[HondaMan]

Mark, I lived there for a few years. Id stay in Colorado.

I wanted to live here ever since the first time I saw it. But, it has become another California, with taxes and incredible governing stupidity that almost grew me an ulcer from it - even though I am not in politics. Example: 20 years ago, my house payment was $600. Today, after 2 refinancings to LOWER interest rates, state/county/local property taxes and 'fees' now have it near $1000 for THE SAME MORTGAGE. Everything else here is just like that, now. Last year I added it up: 48% of my income was taken in one sort of tax or fee or whatever, half by feds, half by CO. Folks are leaving here in droves, as no one can afford it. Unemployment in my field (engineering) is nearly 50% around these parts, and won't get better anytime soon. I get calls and "hits" from TX, LA, AL, AR, NE, and of course, ND on a regular basis: one day I might have to take up one of those offers!

[grcamna2]

     

[nsargeant]

when we run out of crude oil to produce gasoline, we can then start gasifying coal to run in our honda's.  The germans did it during WWII when their crude supply was shut off.  Plus there is plenty of it here in the U.S.

Nathan

[Really?]

Maybe TX HM comes?

[ekpent]

I have an extra empty house here in Michigan Mark Hondaman you can live in for free,unfortunately you will have to be my shop slave from daylight to dark with 1/2 hour for lunch.         

[HondaMan]

I have an extra empty house here in Michigan Mark Hondaman you can live in for free,unfortunately you will have to be my shop slave from daylight to dark with 1/2 hour for lunch.         

You're tempting me...

[DH]

Anyone know if the gas sold in marinas is ethanol free? Seems like marine gas
would be exempt?

[VTCBike750]

Mark, I lived there for a few years. Id stay in Colorado.

I wanted to live here ever since the first time I saw it. But, it has become another California, with taxes and incredible governing stupidity that almost grew me an ulcer from it - even though I am not in politics. Example: 20 years ago, my house payment was $600. Today, after 2 refinancings to LOWER interest rates, state/county/local property taxes and 'fees' now have it near $1000 for THE SAME MORTGAGE. Everything else here is just like that, now. Last year I added it up: 48% of my income was taken in one sort of tax or fee or whatever, half by feds, half by CO. Folks are leaving here in droves, as no one can afford it. Unemployment in my field (engineering) is nearly 50% around these parts, and won't get better anytime soon. I get calls and "hits" from TX, LA, AL, AR, NE, and of course, ND on a regular basis: one day I might have to take up one of those offers!

I know what you mean. I looked at living in CO a few years ago.  There are just too many people in my field and its very competitive.  I know a couple from CA, that moved to CO, and now live in VT.  They still can't sell their house in CO.  I lived in the South my whole life before moving to VT. The South has its fair share of problems. Most of rural Alabama is struggling economically, Jefferson County (Birmingham) is 4 billion in debit. Huntsville is the only area in AL that is economically doing very well.  Property taxes may be cheap, but there's a crumbling infrastructure and economically its a little rough.

Anyone know if the gas sold in marinas is ethanol free? Seems like marine gas
would be exempt?

I believe they are. There's only one automotive gas station near Burlington that sells ethanol free.

I have an extra empty house here in Michigan Mark Hondaman you can live in for free,unfortunately you will have to be my shop slave from daylight to dark with 1/2 hour for lunch.         

I cant compete with that

[Gearheadgreg]

So by letting your member of congress know that YOU WILL Vote them OUT of OFFICE if they vote YES for this has a lot of impact, especially when they want to keep their job.

"On February 7, 2012, the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology will vote on H.R. 3199, introduced by Representative Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI) on October 14, 2011. This bill would require the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to seek independent scientific analysis on the effects of 15 percent ethanol blend (E15) gasoline."

"There are serious concerns that the EPA used only one Department of Energy test and rushed E15's introduction into the marketplace," Sensenbrenner said. "This test was limited in scope and ignored a plethora of evidence – albeit inconvenient evidence for the EPA – that shows E15 gasoline has a negative effect on engines."

"We need your help to pass H.R. 3199. You can find contact information for your Representative at AmericanMotorcyclist.com"

Either I'm reading something wrong or I'm terribly confused (wouldn't be the first time... ask my wife).  Basically, congress is saying it doesn't trust the EPA's findings that E15 is good for our engines.  They're saying that they want further, independent tests to prove the EPA is full of excrement on this issue.  Don't we want them to vote YES on this particular piece of E15 legislation (H.R. 3199)?

Now, if we could just vote out the heads of the EPA, we'd be golden.  I think we're so use to our elected officials making dumb decisions that when they do something that makes sense, it confuses us. 

Not many people like the fact that the EPA has No Congressional oversight...meaning they don't care what our Representatives say...that represent US!! Kinda like Zars on steroids. 

[w1sa]

Then, who does have the power to direct the......?

[Gearheadgreg]

Then, who does have the power to direct the......?

Unfortunately Lawyers and Partisan Judges 

[Accolay]

This isn't the place for politics. That said, the EPA reports to the president, is funded by congress and enforces the laws passed by that body. It is supposed to be a more independent body to protect human health and the environment by keeping those "lawyers and partisan judges" (appointed from both sides of the political coin, I might add) from mucking up scientific recommendations in keeping with their mission.

From wikipedia:

In April 2008, the Union of Concerned Scientists said that more than half of the nearly 1,600 EPA staff scientists who responded online to a detailed questionnaire reported they had experienced incidents of political interference in their work. The survey included chemists, toxicologists, engineers, geologists and experts in other fields of science. About 40% of the scientists reported that the interference has been more prevalent in the last five years compared to previous years. The highest number of complaints came from scientists who are involved in determining the risks of cancer by chemicals used in food and other aspects of everyday life.[47]

[w1sa]

It's amazing, isn't it..........despite the plethora of information, scientific evidence, public outcry and concern..........we are still saddled with an increasing push by the 'interest groups' to widen the ethanol envelope...........in a never decreasing and (even) pervasive view that........ethanol, is somehow the most powerful, technically superior and achievable way to combat fossil fuel depletion and environmental destruction, as a result of automotive fuel requirements. 'Renewable Energy' is the catchcry, and rightly so...........its just amazing tho, that (time and time) again, the facts (or a proper assessment of) are apparently not allowed to get in the way of the most powerful interest groups (political and commercial)...........the (perpetual) shame is that, those who profess to care and act in the public and environmental interest, are shown to be just as complicit and deceptive, by their actions.

[72 yellow]

If we had millions to spend on influence, we could get our way too....

[Freaky1]

I came across an old issue of Popular Mechanics (Oct. 2009) where the main story is alternatives to gasoline. It showed some different types  of bio-fuels that were being developed and their energy yield compared to a gallon of gasoline. It stated that ethanol only produces 66% as much energy as a gallon of gas but there were some that produced as much as 103% to 106%. But the main issue that ran through alternatives other than ethanol was funding and I started to wonder what would happen first. Would enough evidence that ethanol is garbage and does more harm than good actually force change or would engine manufactures alter their designs so what happened to TT's mower doesn't continue? My guess is there is more money for those who back corn than there is for other fuel alternatives or engine manufactures.