Topic: Sell my 400 F and buy a 750 K?

[Tews19]

That bike is not even worth $3k!   I would buy that 400 motor in Tampa for $200.

PLus 500... I am thinking tops 1500-2k.. Plus IMO the look is ugly. Not a fan of the 77-78's

[Tews19]

that sounds kinda fishy to me.. "hey, it's totally #$%*ed man, but I'll be a nice guy and take your (awesome) bike off your hands ". Unless seriously abused, I am dubious that it needed a teardown.
 I do bike repair as a side business, and I can say that if I diagnosed a costomers bike with that kind of trouble, I'd have suggested a second hand engine first and foremost, and I would not take ANYTHING apart till I had approval and a deposit for the work. He might be on the up and up, but there's already signs of trouble there.

I really hate to keep posting but Phil is thinking what i was. I would never set foot inside that shop again.. I would go to the shop and take the bike out.....

I had to do it this past summer. The shop was jerking me around for 3 weeks about not doing my carbs. Then it became an electrical issue.  I decided it was time to get her and not go back. I havent been back, I learned how to do the carbs and she ran great the last part of the summer.

So please get your bike, don't go back there and if you gave any money ask for some sort of refund.. If he doesn't give any refund think of it as a great investment. Investment in the word that you get to keep your great looking machine and not get hosed... DAMN, seriously WTF!!!! Is this a reputible shop in your area? The nerve to tell you the bike engine is trashed but yet offer you 2k for it and sell you another for 4k... SOME SCANDALOUS MTF"ERS OUT THERE.

[andrewk]

I do bike repair on the side too (vintage import only) and while I agree with Phil's sentiment, and while I also think we can all agree his prices and suggestions are a little strange, I think it's too easy to second guess his shop's actions.  We all do things a bit differently.  I'm guessing this 400 we're talking about has very little compression, and probably needs the top end done-  In my shop, I would investigate the cause of low compression, and proceed with advising the customer from there, with the emphasis being on rebuilding the top end, or splitting the cases if need be.  For me, a second hand engine is a last resort.  It's an unknown variable of mostly unknown condition and 400 engines aren't that plentiful.  But that's just me- Phil's shop is different than mine, and we're both different from this guy. 

Don't get me wrong, reading this stuff makes me uneasy too- it seems that something is "up" with this guy.  But I don't think he should be blasted for taking the engine apart.  From the sounds of it, if it ever wants to live properly again, it needed to come apart.  Makes it harder for the next guy, but it doesn't seem so bad to me.

[andrewk]

Also, I'd say your bike is certainly worth repairing.  If you decide to farm out the work, I'd make sure you have the work done by a reputable shop, preferably one that has some experience with vintage bikes, and bite the bullet on their price.  If the shop is honest the work will be expensive, but it won't be unfair.

I think that a top end rebuild is within the grasp of a novice mechanic-  if you can follow directions in the manual, you're pretty much good to go.

[Guyrob]

Hi this is a reply to Andrewk

First, please excuse my poor English, I'm francophone.  This being said I would like to clarify certain issues concerning the motorcycle shop:

1) The guy was recommended to me buy other vintage bike enthousiasts.

2) He has over 35 years of experience as a motorcycle mecanic and comes from a South American country where often, you have to do with what you have on hand : meaning find solutions when you can't find parts...

3) He has many clients with vintage Honda's that have their bikes repaired there.

4) He asks 38$ an hour, last year I blew 460$ away with a mecanic that was suposed to be good one but was cheap (asking 25$ an hour).

5) I went to HONDA dealers : NEVER MiND!  First they don't wan't anything to do with a 30- year old bike and secondly, they charge 90$ an hour.

6) When I went to the shop in question, I was explained by the mechanic that he would open up the motor and do a proper inspection to know what had to be done.  Then, it would be up to me to decide what to do.  Once the motor open, he show'd me the defective pieces, and I'm now enough about mecanics to at least be able to recognize when something is broken....   

7) Considering he offering me a 750 cc.  I was the one that went bezerk when I say all the nice 750 K in the shop..  I told him that this was my dream bike. 

The idea of 'trading' for my bike was that he would get a very good looking bike and repair it on his own time and obviously, save on labour cost and then give it to his son's wife as a present.

So, who's puliing who's leg?  Really hard to say.  The mecanic is not necessarily bad intensioned.  We sometimes come to easily at a quick judgemental opinion.

And again, maybe I'm the fool, who know's?

But, I agree that this FORUM  is helping me in taking my time before saying what I'm going to do,   

 

[HonderCB]

i personally dont care for the 750 he's offereing you (looks) but if you like it i would try to do the trade, just not for nearly what he's asking.  If your bike is truely in as bad of shape internally as he claims then it isnt worth the 2 grand he's offering, and neither is his bike worth 6.  By my estimation there is a 2,000 max in difference between the 2 bikes.  If you are un-comfortable doing the work yourself, and that 750 is really what you want, then try to trade him for 2k difference and go from there.  But then again, we dont know what all is done to that 750, or how many original miles are on it etc.  You might be able to get a better deal yet if you throw in your parts bikes.  I guess it all depends on how attached you are to your little-4 and your money.

Are we talking about $USD or Canadian?  that does make a difference too

[brooze72]

So, who's puliing who's leg?  Really hard to say.  The mecanic is not necessarily bad intensioned.  We sometimes come to easily at a quick judgemental opinion.

And again, maybe I'm the fool, who know's?

But, I agree that this FORUM  is helping me in taking my time before saying what I'm going to do,   

Guyrob, reading your posts, I don't think you're anybodys fool.  Your mechanic came with a recommendation & his rate is very fair (esp for Canada), he did really look at the 400 motor before telling you in detail what's wrong (smart).  We certainly can't seem to always get the same deals up here as some our brothers down south of 49.  I'm sure you'll make a fair decision or deal that's right for you & you'll have something to ride & enjoy.

[Really?]

I rebuilt the top end of my 400f when I was 14.  Dad threw the manual at me and said to fix it (heh, I broke it). I used the tool bag a few of the cheap tools he had.  It ran better when I was done.  Story is, it is repairable by you and in this day and age, you also have this forum.  A whole lot more than what I had.

[FuZZie]

If I do this I will still have the 2  CB 400 that I have bought for parts and will pratice on these two by putting them apart.

IF they have motors you might be wise to have those motors checked you may have a good one and a motor swap should cost way less.

[brooze72]

Good point Fuzzie, he can also sell off those excess parts to fund the repairs!

[FuZZie]

Yep agreed, 400 parts seem to just fly off ebay.

[Guyrob]

OK  I have made my decision.

Seing that CB 400 F are rare I've decided to keep it and have it repaired by the shop that ask's 38$ and hour.  I'll come back to tell you what is going to be repaired but, Wow, this little 400 will be like new.  We will even take out the bottom end of the motor to check everything (tranmission, etc,) change the gaskets, clean are the sludge and scrap metal that may be at the bottom.

He garanties that compression will be like new (around 190 if I remember correctly)

Install new handlebars, allign the front wheel, etc.....

[Bowswell]

Salut,ton moteur a l,air tres mal en point,moi je chercherais un donneur (kijiji 2 cb400f pour$400) pour remplacer le tiens ,la tu pourrais investir quelque centaine $$pour un bon tune-up style chaine distribution et rings,gasket.tes carbus sont ok,ton muffler aussi donc tu les gardes.

Le cb78 ne prendra jamais de valeur autant que ton cb400...

sinon tu a celui ci qui est chers un peu ,mais probablement negociable et lui prendras de la valeur.
http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-motocyclettes-utilitaires-promenade-1974-Honda-CB750K-750-Four-W0QQAdIdZ348868828

sinon j,ai une base moteur de 400 (boitier moteur et transmission) si tu a besoin.
Et aussi un amis qui a 3 épave de cb400f qui dors dans son garage mais je ne sais pas ce qu,il veut faire avec..mais je peu lui demander.
bye

[ekpent]

Salut,ton moteur a l,air tres mal en point,moi je chercherais un donneur (kijiji 2 cb400f pour$400) pour remplacer le tiens ,la tu pourrais investir quelque centaine $$pour un bon tune-up style chaine distribution et rings,gasket.tes carbus sont ok,ton muffler aussi donc tu les gardes.

Le cb78 ne prendra jamais de valeur autant que ton cb400...

sinon tu a celui ci qui est chers un peu ,mais probablement negociable et lui prendras de la valeur.
http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehicules-motocyclettes-utilitaires-promenade-1974-Honda-CB750K-750-Four-W0QQAdIdZ348868828

sinon j,ai une base moteur de 400 (boitier moteur et transmission) si tu a besoin.
Et aussi un amis qui a 3 épave de cb400f qui dors dans son garage mais je ne sais pas ce qu,il veut faire avec..mais je peu lui demander.
bye

Yeah ! what he said       Also just for kicks though make him save the broke or replaced stuff so you can actually see it.

[Guyrob]

Salut Bowsell: c'est mopi qui ai acheté les deux 400 sur kijiji .  Translation, I am the one that bought the two 400 F on Kijiji for 400$.  The motor are also in bad condition.

Anyway thanks!

Old Timer,

Yes I have seen all the broken parts and I have even seen the bottom end of the motor where the timing chain 'nicked' or if you want 'ate inti the metal' of the case.

[madmtnmotors]

Good

OK  I have made my decision.

Seing that CB 400 F are rare I've decided to keep it and have it repaired by the shop that ask's 38$ and hour.  I'll come back to tell you what is going to be repaired but, Wow, this little 400 will be like new.  We will even take out the bottom end of the motor to check everything (tranmission, etc,) change the gaskets, clean are the sludge and scrap metal that may be at the bottom.

He garanties that compression will be like new (around 190 if I remember correctly)

Install new handlebars, allign the front wheel, etc.....

Good call. The 77', 78' 750's are the "red-headed stepchild" of the 750's due to the styling change. Many 750 affectionados don't like the style, but I've had my CB750K8 for twenty-five years and I love it (60,000 mi)! Add to that you were looking at a half-breed with a 79' front end (DOHC) and there's no way I would give more than 3K for it.   

[Guyrob]

Ok here is the information regarding the repairs:

new parts: head gasket, timing chain, valve seals, o rings, carburetor gasket kit, o ring insulator, new set of rings, muffler gasket, many other gaskets..., throttle cable (broken), condenser, new lower handle bars, rapair cam, open bottom end of motor clean and change gaskets, adjust carburetors, sans blast motor, etc.


Clean and arrange the interior of the cylinders.  And, hey what the heck, will probably have the motor repainted being that everything is off the bike and sandblasted clean.

Around 800$ in pieces and or 25 hours of work for 800$ labour.  And what if I have to spend more to have something that is close to as it was when it came out of the factory?  That's OK, this time I will spoil myself.  To many compromises in the past on bike repairs meaning that I rarely had the change to drive a bike that was performing as it should do.

Is it worth it?  I believe so.  Because in the mean time I am putting a lot of hours on major house renovations, and I don't have the time to work on the bike (the learning curve : meaning that with little or no experience it would take me 40 to 100 hours of work???).

So money saved on the house will go to pay for the bike! 

And, I will have a very very decent and beautifully little 400 F to drive for many years.

It's worth it.   

Looking forward to post pictures once it's done.   

[Tews19]

Sweet! SOunds like a #$%* load of damage. But I have no idea as I have yet to take apart an engine. Glad the price doesn't seem that bad either. Keep us posted please

[Guyrob]

Tews19

You have an awesome 550 F.  I like the work that you have done on it.

[andrewk]

800 bucks is a great price, and it sounds like the shop is a bit better than originally thought.

A good and proper engine build is worth every penny.  Looking forward to seeing pictures of it back on the road!

[wedoo2]

I'm glad you decided to do what you did.  Those 400Fs are just so cool.  Maybe it is just the pipes?  I hope that all of the work is done right, and it this point I have no reason to think that it won't.  And, as Steve Martin used to say, those French have a word for everything.

[ekpent]

800 bucks is a great price, and it sounds like the shop is a bit better than originally thought.

A good and proper engine build is worth every penny.  Looking forward to seeing pictures of it back on the road!

I thought the price was more like 800 for parts and 800 for labor which would be 1600 total ??

[Guyrob]

Yep, the price is more likely 800 for parts, 800 for labour and maybe more...

I will probably have the motor repainted, the aluminuium polished, etc. 

This nice red head is worth it 

Here is a picture of two nice little red Honda bikes: my 400 Four and my friends 350 Twin

 

[Bankerdanny]

$6k for a nice clean K1 maybe, but a K6? No way. What he is offering you is to buy his bike for what it's actually worth plus throw in your 400 for free.

In the end your limited production 400 will always be the more desirable bike than his late model 750. You would be far better off to find a rideable SOHC/4 for $1,500 or $2k (which you should be able to do) and take your time restoring the 400.

[Guyrob]

My little Red 400 Super Four is going to be great!  The motor is being restored to the specs as when it came off the assembly line in 1976 (year of the Montreal Summer Olympics).

Complete bottom and top rebuilt, many new pieces and only with Honda parts.

Should have the bike in around a week which is nice.  Here in the province of Quebec it's illegal to drive a motorcycle between Nov 15 to March 15, because the law says that you have to have snow tires!  Geezzzz!

Here is a picture of the repainted bottom end