Topic: CB500 '71 - Amateur Resto Project - Please help!

[geminimotors]

EDU, Thanks for the close-up of the air filter- interesting piece. Keep up the good work. Lots of folks here have revived worse candidates. You're in good company.

[dave500]

Thanks Dave! Great that I can talk to someone who knows about this bikes!! After buying it I spent a good 2-3hs thinking "and now what?" hahaha

theres plenty of people here who know these inside out EDU,for your exhaust leak,spray some "crc" or "wd40"or similar on the exhaust studs and nuts,,give them a good spray,then after an hour try to back one off,,if it loosens nip it back up,do that to all the studs it might fix that leak,,unless you want to remove the pipe to paint it,either way some spray on the studs is a good idea a day before you plan to remove those rusted nuts,replace them with stainless ones once theyre off,how tooled up are you?have you a bench vice,power drill,basic metric spanner and socket set,,one thing youll need to get is an impact screw driver,,those "phillips heads"can be very stubborn and the cross is not really phillips its a JIS "japanese industry standard"and trying to undo them with an aussie phillips mostly ruins the cross.
i also notice that the stock glass tube fuse has been replaced with a more modern blade type,,thats a good thing,,id undo that black tape around it and see whats under there,,like twisted together wires or something,ive also noticed that your case screws have all been replaced with allen heads,,you might not need an impact driver at this point,but at least you learnt something.

[EDU]

Thanks Dave! Not tooled up at all... I do have most of that stuff and a dremel (in case I need to get physical! hahaha), no impact driver yet though. I'll make sure to get one. Also in case I need to, where can I get JIS tools?

I was talking to a guy who happened to be walking buy when I was taking pictures (amazing how many people asked me about the bike btw - have had sportbikes for 5 years and no one has ever done that!!!) and he suggested I started taking care of any rusty bit it may have or by the time I'm done with the rest I might need to replace even more stuff. It made sense to me, so with tomorrow being Saturday and all, that's what I'll be tackling!

I also made a video of the bike so you guys can hear it and hopefully help identify any potential problem I may have(close your eyes though - you've been warned!!  ), I'll upload it later today.

Ps: Thanks for the exhaust tip, also! First thing I did after buying the bike was to stop at a shop and buy 3 cans of WD40 and 2 of Mother poshing wax! I still have no idea of what I'll need to do on this bike but I knew they wouldn't be wasted! hahahaha

[dave500]

jis is the type of japanese phillips head,like i said your case screws have already been changed to allen head type so dont rush out and buy an impact driver,allen heads(or cap screws,cap heads,socket heads) wernt standard on these bikes they had japanese phillips or "jis"head screws yours have been changed already,your probably used to seeing them on later model sports bikes,get used to people stopping and talking about your old honda cb!

[dingo]

"There's something leaking fuel around the petcock/carbs area. Not sure what it is but it's there..."

Check the fuel delivery lines and if they are ok it could be a worn float valve or the float level could be to high on one of the carbs. If the fuel is leaking from one of the carb overflow pipes, you would have four coming from under the carbs, you will be able to ascertain which carb is overflowing. If it is doing it with the petcock turned off you may also need to replace the rubber valve inside the petcock. Had this happen to me recently on the K1.
As Dave pointed out your engine has had a set of Allen key bolts fitted so you will also need a set of metric Allen keys in your toolbox. 

[Hush]

I found the oil designed for older cars like Chrysler Valiant's and old Holdens etc from the era of these bikes works best, the Americans have more variety of oils than us but being just across the ditch you will probably have the same choice as us here in NZ. They need that old non synthetic oil as the wet clutches will slip like a bastid if you use your new stuff.

Now clamp your helmet on and enter the trenches as WW111 is about to happen.

[EDU]

"There's something leaking fuel around the petcock/carbs area. Not sure what it is but it's there..."

Check the fuel delivery lines and if they are ok it could be a worn float valve or the float level could be to high on one of the carbs. If the fuel is leaking from one of the carb overflow pipes, you would have four coming from under the carbs, you will be able to ascertain which carb is overflowing. If it is doing it with the petcock turned off you may also need to replace the rubber valve inside the petcock. Had this happen to me recently on the K1.
As Dave pointed out your engine has had a set of Allen key bolts fitted so you will also need a set of metric Allen keys in your toolbox.

Thanks! Some going info there! I'll pull some stuff apart tomorrow and see what I can find. Hopefully I can fix it but I'm thinking your guess on the carbs is correct. If it is, I think I'll have to take her to a mechanic... I really wanted to learn how to fix the carbs but it might be too much for my (lack of) knowledge.

I did forget to turn the petcock off when I brought the bike home and found some fuel on the tray of my ute.. but I then I turned it off and parked it and it haven't found anymore since.

Also, I do have a metric set of allen keys on my tool box that I use on the track bike! So one less thing to buy...

Is it me or does it look like my resto is gonna get expensive?

[EDU]

Now clamp your helmet on and enter the trenches as WW111 is about to happen.

hahahaha

[dave500]

is it going to be a resto,or just clean it up and get it running and ride it around with its patina?plan A will become plan B if you start taking it apart,make sure your mechanic understands these older bikes,especialy the carbs,heaps wont work on them because they cant,heaps think they can but cant,theyll do a "tune up" charge you money and itll be the same maybe?setting the points can be a mind bender for the modern "top" mechanic aswell,if the engine is running well enough leave it alone if your already thinking of taking it to a shop?

[EDU]

The idea is to restore the bike as well as I can. Stress on 'I'! hahahaha I'll try and avoid mechanics as much as I can because one of the main reasons I bought this bike was because I wanted to LEARN to work on bikes. But the carbs seem a bit too complicated to try and do on my own... then again, I may be just a bit too comfortable on my chair and need to man up and take the risk!

I'm giving my self late December as a deadline to have it on the road, registered and reliable. Whether it will be looking good or not, I don't know... at the moment, that's not a main priority. I can tell you that.

Back on the resto (if I can even call it that, yet!)

I've just sprayed the @#$ out of the studs and nuts on the header and even on the muffler. I'll try and remove the headers and separate them from the muffler, then have the headers sand blasted. Any ideas of what that should cost? Never had anything like that done before and wouldn't like to be taken for a ride.

Another problem I noticed is this:


Can that rusty spot on the right fork be fixed? It looks pretty nasty...

The left fork is not rusty (not that I can see anyway) but it has its own issues:

[EDU]

I need to make a list of things I need to order too so I can budget for everything. At the moment I've only bought an used set of instruments ($61 speedo/tacho/bracket/etc -mine didn't come with any), a set of Tappet Valve Cover O Rings ($5 - I thought I'd need it eventually),  and new badges for the tank 'cause I intend to give it a lick of paint at some point along with the tail piece of the seat and the side covers.

Missing something?!


I want to also get a set of clip ons and matching braided brake lines as soon as possible... btw, the accelerator is sticking like BO to an old shirt. I'm even use it as a choke when I start the bike, it's that bad! Unless I manually return it to its position it will just remain at whatever position I leave it. Is there anywhere I can order new cables for both the accelerator and the clutch in the correct length for the clip ons?

Ok, hang on... ultra amateur question alarm!!!

Does this bike have choke?!  I sort of looked for it but I couldn't find anything even remotely close to what I was thinking I'd find.

Sorry about the blatant ignorance! 

[wedoo2]

As far as the forks go, it is obvious that the seals have failed because of the oil rings above the legs.  They will have to be replaced which is not a bad idea anyway.  That rust spot on the top of the right fork can be buffed out, but to make new would have to have some chrome put on it.     I doubt it will affect function.  You may want to decide on how nice you want the forks, may want to replace the top part..

The cash register continues to go DING, DING, DING.

[wedoo2]

Oh, you may want to get this thread moved to the Project area.

[EDU]

As far as the forks go, it is obvious that the seals have failed because of the oil rings above the legs.  They will have to be replaced which is not a bad idea anyway.  That rust spot on the top of the right fork can be buffed out, but to make new would have to have some chrome put on it.     I doubt it will affect function.  You may want to decide on how nice you want the forks, may want to replace the top part..

The cash register continues to go DING, DING, DING.

hahahaha tell me about it... at least I know it can be done then! I was thinking I'd have to get new forks or something. Not even sure what would be cheaper/better to be honest. Never had chrome put on anything so I wouldn't have a clue of cost! I'm willing to fix it though, that looks horrible IMO.

Oh, you may want to get this thread moved to the Project area.

I'm not sure how to do that... but I'm happy to do it!

In the meantime, this is a vid a shot this morning of the bike running. I had just started it and she was even a bit rougher than she is when the engine warms up a little. Like I said, no idea where the choke is so I was using my sticky throttle as one. At the end of the video I roll the throttle back completely and the bike dies like 2 secs after the video ends.

Click at your own discretion! HD kinda makes it even worse... hahahaha

[Lavis500]

In your first post, the choke control can be seen in your pic of the carbs!  It is rusty brown, slightly semi-circular, located at the intake side of the carb body, and has an arrow point rear and down with the word "close."  It's just a small thumb tab that rotates - no cable or anything fancy.

Congrats on your find!  Your a couple steps ahead of the game in that she starts up fairly quickly!

[dingo]

You will probably find that the tops of the forks are quite rusty behind the covered area, providing they are not too pitted you could sand that area down and paint with a rust inhibitor paint. I had to do this when I rebuilt my CB450. To cover the section that extends below the base of the bottom clamp you could source and fit the rubber boots that were originally fitted. Not quite the cafe look but cheaper than replacing the fork tubes or having them rechromed. The forks will be tight to remove,because of the rust , but it is necessary to replace the seals.
The sticky throttle could be caused by two things. One it could be dry cables that could be fixed by relubing the inner cable, or two it could be caused by old fuel deposits in the carb slides which is a bit more difficult to correct. I am not familiar with the 500 carbs so I will leave that to someone with more experience.
Your idling issue could be as simple as the revs are set to low but this is difficult to know without a tacho fitted.
I quite often use the following site to get an idea of how things go together and a source for part numbers. I have given the link for the CB500 K1.
http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb500-four-k1-general-export_model14659/partslist/

[EDU]

In your first post, the choke control can be seen in your pic of the carbs!  It is rusty brown, slightly semi-circular, located at the intake side of the carb body, and has an arrow point rear and down with the word "close."  It's just a small thumb tab that rotates - no cable or anything fancy.

Congrats on your find!  Your a couple steps ahead of the game in that she starts up fairly quickly!

I knew there should be a choke somewhere in there!! hahahahhaa Thanks! And yes, it does start usually on the second or third attempt (when I remember to turn the ignition switch and the petcock on that is  ).

Yesterday I went over it with same lame metal polish (liquid and meant to clean cutlery) and I was surprise to find that most parts clean quite well... Even the sprocket cover which, as you can see in one of the pictures, looked pretty bad cleaned up more than I expected. I'm thinking with a decent product it will come out ok! So maybe (and that's me being hopeful) the bike is not bad as I anticipated 'cause the grime/rust/etc it has doesn't seem to be there for too long (except the chain and the bars, I think).

My only real concern at the moment is a rusty spot on the frame (you can see it on the right side of the bike on the picture where the seat is flipped open - next to the tank). I had an old Oldsmobile Delta 88 which coincidentally was also a 1971 model and it had some minor rust under the back seat (or so I thought) till one day I driving on a highway and I hear this noise... pull over, look under the car and I can see the seat belts hanging under the car! Long story short pulled the back seat up and there's one massive whole where the panel use to be, all I can see is the tarmac bellow! Long story short(er), it looked minor but it went through the panel in 5-6 months! I'd hate for that to happen on this bike.

You will probably find that the tops of the forks are quite rusty behind the covered area, providing they are not too pitted you could sand that area down and paint with a rust inhibitor paint. I had to do this when I rebuilt my CB450. To cover the section that extends below the base of the bottom clamp you could source and fit the rubber boots that were originally fitted. Not quite the cafe look but cheaper than replacing the fork tubes or having them rechromed. The forks will be tight to remove,because of the rust , but it is necessary to replace the seals.

Thanks! I'll have to get new ears anyway because the ones on the bike are cracked and some of the cracks go pretty far... It's a cheap(ish) part so I can live with it. I'll take your advice on the rubber boots, I actually like the way they look!! Plus it saves me having to have the whole thing re-chromed. I was also reading on the dual disk conversion (search button is causing me to go to be veeeery late) and as I understand it I'd have to get a set of CB550 forks as well, so I might just change the seals and etc on this one for now and if I still have some money later I'll try and do get the forks and do the conversion. I haven't done anything to the brakes yet but from what I read, they could do with some improving.

The sticky throttle could be caused by two things. One it could be dry cables that could be fixed by relubing the inner cable, or two it could be caused by old fuel deposits in the carb slides which is a bit more difficult to correct. I am not familiar with the 500 carbs so I will leave that to someone with more experience.
Your idling issue could be as simple as the revs are set to low but this is difficult to know without a tacho fitted.
I quite often use the following site to get an idea of how things go together and a source for part numbers. I have given the link for the CB500 K1.
http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb500-four-k1-general-export_model14659/partslist/

Thanks a lot for that link! The weekend is here and that means I get to tinker with the bike a bit more... next weekend is the missus' bday so I need to do something NOW! hahaha I'll start by trying to clean the bike up as much as I can and then trying to lube the accel cable. Hopefully that will free it up! I'll also try and fix the exhaust leak in the meantime. I'll need to pull some stuff off anyway to fix the fuel leak so if I can make myself scarce in the house, I think it can all be done this weekend!

[dave500]

if the throttle grip is of the closed end type it may be rubbing on the handle bar end giving a sticky throttle?

[EDU]

Oh well... it's not all good news!

Tried the nuts on the headers and they were all pretty easy to unscrew (thanks for the WD40 tip!) almost felt like they hadn't been done up in the first place!

Well, one of them hadn't since the nut was missing! (See pic)

I didn't have one to replace it either but then remembered the bike came with some 'spares' under the seat! hahahahaha

Check the amout of crap it has in there! Thankfully there was a nut there too!


Note that one of the headers it is not actually a nut but a screw that holds it in place! Don't know if this is how it's supposed to be from factory or if it's something the previous owner had to fix:



So I fixated the headers properly, making sure I didn't overtighten anything. I started the bike and straight away the noise changed. It was much deeper and rougher than usual. The bike was struggling to maintain rpms. Then I noticed some dark smoking coming out of the muffler and it would increase as I rev'ed the bike... Not blue nor white smoke, just some dark grey stuff.

Then things got interesting. I tried to make a video out of it running and showing the smoke but he bike died and I started it again, idled for a while then died again. And same thing 3 or 4 times till it wouldn't start anymore.  Now like I said I don't know much but I'm assuming from the color of the smoke that the bike was running waaaaaay too rich at that stage. It probably was rich before but adding back pressure to the exhaust didn't help. Any logic to this or does it sound more like I need an engine rebuild?

Then to make things better, I lost all power. No more oil light was the big giveaway. I was still puzzled as to why that happened when the light came back on by itself a few minutes later... I tried to start the bike and almost got it going then lost all power again.

Gave up on trying to start it (I personally blame it on the carbs fouling the plugs - all based purely on... erm... a guess!) and decided to try and polish the rough bits so I could at least get something good out of the day. Most stuff actually comes out nicely, even though I'm only using a cloth... I'll bring the dremel out eventually.

Then more bad news, notice the top tree is cracked. Badly.



Forks look and feel straight (despite the obvious leaks) so I'm not even sure how it cracked.

Anyway, not the best day in my garage but I'm remaining positive that I can do this! The bike is fighting back but I'll go down swinging! hahahaha

[dave500]

there should be a washer in the gap of the tree that stops it being so crushed closed,these are often MIA.

[EDU]

there should be a washer in the gap of the tree that stops it being so crushed closed,these are often MIA.

There you go then... that solves that mystery.

Now I don't know if I should buy just a triple top or fork out some more cash and see if I can find a decent front end from a 550 since, from what I read, I'll be needing the forks for the dual disk conversion.

[EDU]

if the throttle grip is of the closed end type it may be rubbing on the handle bar end giving a sticky throttle?

Just saw this now, sorry Dave! And yes, it is of the closed end type!!!

[dave500]

relax the screws holding the throttle and slip it sideways a little and see if that fixes it,,i only use open grips with end plugs.

[EDU]

Well gf had other ideas of what I was supposed to do this weekend... I'll give that grip's tip a go Monnday morning. I'll also try to invert the bars just to see what they'll look like at a lower position.

The idea is get clip ons eventually  but I won't bother with that just yet. I want focus my spending on grtting the bike to work well first... and since I couldn't even get it started ladt time I tried, the cljp ons will have to wait.

[EDU]

Question: How do I get this changed to the project area? It definitely seems like it belongs there.