Topic: Split from: Upcoming fuel changes thread

[Spanner 1]

Don't get me started about Big Corn...... I wish the era of Big Corn was over  . It has devastated the farmers ( GMOs', seed control, debt they cannot get out of ) and is in about every product produced for human and animal consumption. Now increase it's content in gasoline too.
The VERY worst part is the effect on the diet of the people. H.F.C.S. is the root cause of the diabetes epidemic in both children and adults currently rampant in the U.S. Don't take my word for it, do some research.

[lucky]

Thanks for the "Heads Up" HondaMan...I need to renew my membership to AMA so I know what my rights as a motyorcyclist are; I didn't think they would put "more" Ethanol in fuel  ,...I was kind of hoping they would take more out.

dave500,
     Do they still manufacture Firezone oil for the top oiling of engines there "Down Under" ?? I've used that before and noticed a bit more power from increased compression seal.

Many California stations are already selling this new fuel. It is not a problem.
Many CARS called "Flex fuel" vehicles have a separate tank with switch valve.
The pump is clearly marked.

[lucky]

Don't get me started about Big Corn...... I wish the era of Big Corn was over  . It has devastated the farmers ( GMOs', seed control, debt they cannot get out of ) and is in about every product produced for human and animal consumption. Now increase it's content in gasoline too.
The VERY worst part is the effect on the diet of the people. H.F.C.S. is the root cause of the diabetes epidemic in both children and adults currently rampant in the U.S. Don't take my word for it, do some research.

In California we cannot buy real corn to eat at Safeway stores.
All we can get is the genetically yellow colored white sweet con.
Many young people will never get to find out what a piece of real corn tastes like. You know like the "country get" variety. The same kind Kentucky fried Chicken gets.

I always insist that my local Safeway store NOT label this sweet artifically colored corn to be labled "yellow corn".

We can buy real corn in the frozen food section of Safeway, but sometimes we can only get cobbettes and not the whole ear of corn.

[HonderCB]

The VERY worst part is the effect on the diet of the people. H.F.C.S. is the root cause of the diabetes epidemic in both children and adults currently rampant in the U.S. Don't take my word for it, do some research.

This here is the biggest load of B.S. of all.  People in America are diabetic at an alarming rate because they do not regulate their intake of SUGAR.  Whether that sugar is from cane or corn makes ZERO difference.  The problem with HFCS comes from the fact that is its less expensive and more readily availiable to food manufacturers.  Thus, it is very common in the foods you consume, and people associate it with diabetes.  If a different form of sugar were used, and the roles were switched the diabetes problem would be no different.

Americans need to get more active physically and consume less sugar PERIOD.  HFCS has nothing to do with the fact that we, as a nation, have gotten irresponsible and lazy, and would rather sit and look at facebook on our smartphones than go outside and take a lap or two around the block.

[Accolay]

Off topic, but aren't we still finding out about HFCS? Such as in this article http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/

But I do agree there is a problem with diet and exercise in this country.

This here is the biggest load of B.S. of all.  People in America are diabetic at an alarming rate because they do not regulate their intake of SUGAR.  Whether that sugar is from cane or corn makes ZERO difference.  The problem with HFCS comes from the fact that is its less expensive and more readily availiable to food manufacturers.  Thus, it is very common in the foods you consume, and people associate it with diabetes.  If a different form of sugar were used, and the roles were switched the diabetes problem would be no different.

Americans need to get more active physically and consume less sugar PERIOD.  HFCS has nothing to do with the fact that we, as a nation, have gotten irresponsible and lazy, and would rather sit and look at facebook on our smartphones than go outside and take a lap or two around the block.

[HonderCB]

last post on this, since it is hijacking, but anyone who wants to learn about HFCS needs to go to this website:
http://www.sweetsurprise.com/
and browse around.  Read the articles, watch the videos, etc.  There are more than enough medical experts and professionals who have done extensive reasearch on the topic.

Noone is saying HFCS is good for you, vegetables are good for you.  Excercise is good for you.  Caloric sugars are not.  They should be consumed in moderation (regardless of source).  Too much of the 2 former, and not enough of the latter is this country (and the rest of the world's) problem.  This epidemic is not exclusive to America, and many places dont use HFCS hardly, if at all.

[Accolay]

Don't you think a website made by and for the corn industry might be a little biased? Just sayin'

[HonderCB]

Don't you think a website made by and for the corn industry might be a little biased? Just sayin'

Your absolutely right. 

However, the sources for their content are unbiased 3rd party medical experts... many of them.  Obviously there are other experts with differing opinions, you will have to look elsewhere to review their studies and form your own opinions.  Its no different than researching which oil is best for your SOHC4.  your going to get certain information for and against many types from different places.  Its up for you to decide what makes more sense.

[Retro Rocket]

However, the sources for their content are unbiased 3rd party medical experts

HAHAHA, thats funny.......or naive 

[FuZZie]

Don't you think a website made by and for the corn industry might be a little biased? Just sayin'

Your absolutely right. 

However, the sources for their content are unbiased 3rd party medical experts... many of them.  Obviously there are other experts with differing opinions, you will have to look elsewhere to review their studies and form your own opinions.  Its no different than researching which oil is best for your SOHC4.  your going to get certain information for and against many types from different places.  Its up for you to decide what makes more sense.

I don't know if you remember how this stuff got allowed in our food, but some " unbiased 3rd party medical experts..." really screwed us!
http://www.sweetpoison.com/

[Accolay]

I wouldn't say that they intentionally screwed us, I'd say it's more that we don't really know until later. Medical research is slow.

[Spanner 1]

Here, look at this  maybe this guy knows what the heck he's talking about......hey I know it's a whole lecture but just fast-forward to 42 mins. for the good stuff

Sugar: The Bitter Truth

[TwoTired]

Here, look at this  maybe this guy knows what the heck he's talking about......hey I know it's a whole lecture but just fast-forward to 42 mins. for the good stuff

Sugar: The Bitter Truth

Thanks for the link Spanner.  Explains a lot.  Pity we don't have a government "for" the people.

[HonderCB]

you guys are free to form your own opinions on the subject.  Being a producer, i may be biased towards corn based products.  However, i like to believe that i am mostly objective and open minded.  I dont agree that ethanol is a viable alternative to gasoline due to many factors, even though ethanol production has greatly increased my family's profits over the past 5-10 years.  I dont think a biased person would be able to say that.

Do your research and form your opinions after reading studies, watching lectures, and adding up the numbers from sources on BOTH sides of the arguement.  Dont base your judgements soley on what the media tells you, they are inherently negative, do your own research.

I guess i just find it semi-comical that an entire nation of people want to blame their weight problems (something 90% of people have the ability to control on their own) on the gov't.  Look in the mirror people.

[Lostboy Steve]

REALLY? Explain why 3 years ago at the age of 24 I was diagnosed with TYPE 1 Diabetes. I've never been over weight, never had the flu, immune to chickenpox, and I play hockey twice a week. THERE IS NO HISTORY OF ANY DIABETICS IN MY FAMILY. Now I play with insulin and needles all day and prick my fingers every few hours. I agree that a lot of TYPE 2 diabetics may be over weight, but I have two friends that are in great shape and are my age (27ish) with Type 2. Any good doctor will tell you that they just DON'T KNOW why I got so lucky. You are correct about the HFCS though. All fructose works the same in the body, whether it comes from corn syrup, cane sugar, beet sugar, strawberries, onions, or tomatoes. Only the amounts are different. For example, a cup of chopped tomatoes has 2.5 grams of fructose, a can of regular (non-diet) soda supplies 23 grams, and a super-size soda has about 62 grams. Its the carbs that matter, not the sweetener. 

The VERY worst part is the effect on the diet of the people. H.F.C.S. is the root cause of the diabetes epidemic in both children and adults currently rampant in the U.S. Don't take my word for it, do some research.

This here is the biggest load of B.S. of all.  People in America are diabetic at an alarming rate because they do not regulate their intake of SUGAR.  Whether that sugar is from cane or corn makes ZERO difference.  The problem with HFCS comes from the fact that is its less expensive and more readily availiable to food manufacturers.  Thus, it is very common in the foods you consume, and people associate it with diabetes.  If a different form of sugar were used, and the roles were switched the diabetes problem would be no different.

Americans need to get more active physically and consume less sugar PERIOD.  HFCS has nothing to do with the fact that we, as a nation, have gotten irresponsible and lazy, and would rather sit and look at facebook on our smartphones than go outside and take a lap or two around the block.

[Duke McDukiedook]

HCFS is not like unprocessed, raw sugar.
There is definitely a difference between the two being that one is highly processed from corn sugars and the other is a LOT less processed.

[Retro Rocket]

HCFS is not like unprocessed, raw sugar.
There is definitely a difference between the two being that one is highly processed from corn sugars and the other is a LOT less processed.

Yep, it is the over processing that is the problem, your body recognizes it as being "processed" and stores it rather than processing it correctly. All over processed food stuffs are not good for the body.

[TwoTired]

All fructose works the same in the body, whether it comes from corn syrup, cane sugar, beet sugar, strawberries, onions, or tomatoes.

I can't believe that anymore than saying all types of alcohols are the same.  Care to drink Methanol, instead of ethanol?  They are both alcohols, but drinking one of those forces the liver to create chemicals that destroy the optic nerve, and may even kill you.  Look up the chemical structure, the minor differences are quite important.

It is the way the body metabolizes the ingested chemical structures that make all the difference.  There are many types of sugars with different chemical structures within the broad generalization of "sugar". They are NOT all the same, or they wouldn't have different specific identifiers within the genre.   (See the charts below.)

To assert that a human organ would treat all chemical structures with the same reactions seems extremely naive (or with intended subterfuge) to me. 
It is parallel to asserting that anything with a Honda badge on it, has the exact same capabilities and functions, and are completely interchangeable in any applied role.  However, Honda makes trucks, cars, motorcycles, ATVs, etc. that have individual capabilities that can't be interchanged in all applications, even though most will transport a human body over some distance and time span.  Similarly, a Ford badge doesn't define much in the way of specific use or ability.

I dare say that if your cafe racer in the garage transformed into a Fat Boy, you wouldn't just say that all Motorcycles are the same and interchangeable.
Neither is "sugar".
If you intake a starch (carbohydrate) your body does NOT convert it to fructose, it converts it to glucose that all your cells can use directly, or it converts it to fat, which can later be converted to glucose during periods of scant caloric intake, should you ignore or suppress the Leptin hormone "signal" to the brain that tells you to stop intake.

I'm sorry you have diabetes, (my mother had it and didn't cope well).  You might consider reading the book "NeanderThin" by Ray Audette (who was also a diabetic before engaging in a paleolithic diet). But, not everyone has the same genetic code, and our present society does not value a robust and resistant gene pool.  My genes mandated poor eyesight (myopia at age 5 or 6).     However, that does not mean there aren't factors that effect the species in a general way.  Some may be acute (damage, debilitate, maim, debilitate in short period of time) or chronic (damage, debilitate, maim, debilitate over a longer period of time).
By the way, doctors can be mislead, too.

Cheers,

[HonderCB]

REALLY? Explain why 3 years ago at the age of 24 I was diagnosed with TYPE 1 Diabetes. I've never been over weight, never had the flu, immune to chickenpox, and I play hockey twice a week. THERE IS NO HISTORY OF ANY DIABETICS IN MY FAMILY. Now I play with insulin and needles all day and prick my fingers every few hours. I agree that a lot of TYPE 2 diabetics may be over weight, but I have two friends that are in great shape and are my age (27ish) with Type 2. Any good doctor will tell you that they just DON'T KNOW why I got so lucky. You are correct about the HFCS though. All fructose works the same in the body, whether it comes from corn syrup, cane sugar, beet sugar, strawberries, onions, or tomatoes. Only the amounts are different. For example, a cup of chopped tomatoes has 2.5 grams of fructose, a can of regular (non-diet) soda supplies 23 grams, and a super-size soda has about 62 grams. Its the carbs that matter, not the sweetener. 

The VERY worst part is the effect on the diet of the people. H.F.C.S. is the root cause of the diabetes epidemic in both children and adults currently rampant in the U.S. Don't take my word for it, do some research.

This here is the biggest load of B.S. of all.  People in America are diabetic at an alarming rate because they do not regulate their intake of SUGAR.  Whether that sugar is from cane or corn makes ZERO difference.  The problem with HFCS comes from the fact that is its less expensive and more readily availiable to food manufacturers.  Thus, it is very common in the foods you consume, and people associate it with diabetes.  If a different form of sugar were used, and the roles were switched the diabetes problem would be no different.

Americans need to get more active physically and consume less sugar PERIOD.  HFCS has nothing to do with the fact that we, as a nation, have gotten irresponsible and lazy, and would rather sit and look at facebook on our smartphones than go outside and take a lap or two around the block.

I'm sorry for your luck twisted.  I wasnt trying to ruffle feathers or offend anyone who is diabetic.  Obviously no two people are the same, so the things i said do not apply to everyone (i think i may have hinted at that in one of my posts, dont rememeber).  Regardless, in addition to getting excercise, diet is important too.  Without knowing your diet there is no way to convince me what happened in your case, and i am not going to speculate on it either.

[Raef]

you guys are free to form your own opinions on the subject.  Being a producer, i may be biased towards corn based products.  However, i like to believe that i am mostly objective and open minded.  I don't agree that ethanol is a viable alternative to gasoline due to many factors, even though ethanol production has greatly increased my family's profits over the past 5-10 years.  I don't think a biased person would be able to say that.

Do your research and form your opinions after reading studies, watching lectures, and adding up the numbers from sources on BOTH sides of the argument.  Don't base your judgements soley on what the media tells you, they are inherently negative, do your own research.

I guess i just find it semi-comical that an entire nation of people want to blame their weight problems (something 90% of people have the ability to control on their own) on the gov't.  Look in the mirror people.

I think the point is people can't control their own weight if they are being misinformed and you cant take responsibility for your health if we are being lied to or misinformed about nutrition. We all live on our little worlds and depending where you live and the surrounding communities you my not consume a lot of soda or fast food, but many do. I have always thought sugar is sugar but that's obviously that not the case if the guy in spanners vid knows what he is talking about. considering I drink at least  a case of soda a week my self, that vid is some scary stuff.

My grandpa is a 94 year old wwII vet, his knees are gone and his mind is going but he lived on his own till he was in his ninety's, my dad is  64 and has had health problems for the last 15-20 years, mostly sugar, blood pressure and heart. I have never seen my grandpa drink a soda, and my dad used to have one in his hand all the time and that. soda and fast food is the only real difference in the two that comes to mind.

[HonderCB]

My grandpa is a 94 year old wwII vet, his knees are gone and his mind is going but he lived on his own till he was in his ninety's, my dad is  64 and has had health problems for the last 15-20 years, mostly sugar, blood pressure and heart. I have never seen my grandpa drink a soda, and my dad used to have one in his hand all the time and that. soda and fast food is the only real difference in the two that comes to mind.

And on the other end of the spectrum, my father-in-law drinks 6-12 cokes a day, and has since he was a child.  He loves the stuff.  he is in his early 60's.  Healthy as can be.  Everyone is different.  Think what you want.

[Rgconner]

All fructose works the same in the body, whether it comes from corn syrup, cane sugar, beet sugar, strawberries, onions, or tomatoes.

I can't believe that anymore than saying all types of alcohols are the same.  Care to drink Methanol, instead of ethanol?  They are both alcohols, but drinking one of those forces the liver to create chemicals that destroy the optic nerve, and may even kill you.  Look up the chemical structure, the minor differences are quite important.

Fructose is fructose is fructose. It is a specific molecule: C6H12O6

Does not matter where it comes from, corn, apple, or whatever.

Now, if you said not all sugars are the same, that is very true. Sugars are a wide class of molecules, like alcohol.

Sucrose is very specifically a combo of glucose and fructose, 1:1. The molecules are bonded together, and must be digested before it can be used.

HFCS is not balanced, it is a range of Fructose to Sucrose ratios, and they are not bonded together, which is why it is a liquid and not a crystal.

Being free like that means the glucose goes right into the bloodstream, no digestion needed. It is like freebasing sugar to the brain... the sugar rush is faster to get the brain and faster to "crash" as it is consumed.

Oddly, pure Fructose would be better, as it needs to be converted to glucose to be used by the body.

[Bob Wessner]

This thread was split from the ethanol discussion. Post topics re: HFC or its impacts on diets here, not in the original thread. Thanks.

[333]

Here are the studies from some reputable sources;

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/

Well, okay, just one.  I couldn't find the one from the University of California that said that while all sugars feed cancer, HFCS feeds it by a factor of something like 10.

But here's another little tidbit of info.  Remember back in '85 or '86, when Coca Cola came out with a "new" formula?  That was all about switching from cane sugar to HFCS.  That drove my boss crazy.  He ended up with almost 100 cases of the original in his garage.  But now here's my opinion.  If you extrapolate the entrance or increase of HFCS in food and drink from, say the late 70s, you can easily figure that as a factor.  Another could easily be video games.  Of course, without studies, all this means is nothing.  But it seems to make sense to me.  Obesity seems to have gotten worse almost exponentially since about the 70s.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Don't you think a website made by and for the corn industry might be a little biased? Just sayin'

Your absolutely right. 

However, the sources for their content are unbiased 3rd party medical experts... many of them.  Obviously there are other experts with differing opinions, you will have to look elsewhere to review their studies and form your own opinions.  Its no different than researching which oil is best for your SOHC4.  your going to get certain information for and against many types from different places.  Its up for you to decide what makes more sense.

Paid whores is a better term.

[fmctm1sw]

This is the first "spin-off" I've seen in a long time.  It makes me think of the J-Wow/Snooki spin off thing only this is way more exciting....   

[Raef]

The problem is there is no way to discuss this without it turning political, i should have known better than to post in it in the first place I humbly beg the court for mercy and ask for forgiveness.....for our screwed up government that is

[Accolay]

If anyone is still interested, here's an article that was recently published which gives another possible cause for diabetes and obesity.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0031109

Additionally, epidemiological evidence links BPA levels in urine with metabolic disorders in adult humans. These include type-2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases and insulin resistance [33], [34].

[Duke McDukiedook]

Look, the FDA and all of science has no idea what type of reactions can or could occur with the cocktail mixture of thousands of inorganic and organic compounds our bodies are exposed to. The problem is systemic, one way to try and fight the problems is to try to eat things in the simplest form possible, try not to eat processed foods if you can- or limit your consumption of them. This is getting tougher everyday.
 

[Retro Rocket]

Look, the FDA and all of science has no idea what type of reactions can or could occur with the cocktail mixture of thousands of inorganic and organic compounds our bodies are exposed to. The problem is systemic, one way to try and fight the problems is to try to eat things in the simplest form possible, try not to eat processed foods if you can- or limit your consumption of them. This is getting tougher everyday.

I couldn't agree more....