Topic: Vintage sidecar rebuild - new video

[bear]

Brian, my first real motorcycle was a BSA 650 Gold Flash with a transporter body sidecar, I used it to transport my scrambler/motocross bike. It was a bit of a handfull for a 120lb youngster with no muscles.

Sam.

I'm shore it was Sammy.

Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

Actually the frame issue has little to do with the chair brake.  Was watching the F1 chairs @ Donnington and they were locking the chair wheel in left's when it started to float.

I still can't see how a chair brake can do anything but try to steer the rig to the left?

That makes sense Scott when one considers that the chair itself is trying to do that in the first place.

Sam.

Arrrr..............
The dark art of sidecars. It,s a worry isn't it gentlemen.

Cheers,
Brian

scotty & Sam - while the chair wheel has no suspension it can be adjusted for camber & castor, and there is an adjustable bias installed.  I have never had any issues with straight line stability.  As Bear says it is a dark art.  I suspect that the frame was bent right from the beginning (from a crash by PO), but not having any bases for comparison just worked with what I had.  The wheel wasn't locking last year, mainly because I was slower, and therefore using less brake.  I've taken Bear's advice and am linking the chair brake to the rear through the bias adjuster.  It will be setup so when the rear is locked the chair isn't.

Didn't Colin Seeley use something similar Sam, when he started out.

[Sam Green Racing]

I don't know Brian, I don't know everyone in the UK ya know,  ,  just the Queen and a few of her subjects. 

Sam.

[Tintop]

I don't know Brian, I don't know everyone in the UK ya know,  ,  just the Queen and a few of her subjects. 

Sam.

Did some checking Sam - it was a Matchless Model X V Twin, probably late 30's model, he used it in the mid 50's.  Given your such a youngster, probably before your time.

[Sam Green Racing]

Yes Brian, ten years. didn't know he was that old. 

[scottly]

It will be setup so when the rear is locked the chair isn't.

Under what chair wheel loading? The VW unit I mentioned had a ball inside a cylinder, mounted on an incline. As braking increased, and the front end dipped, the ball rolled forwards and reduced to pressure to the rear. Think of it as a crude sort of anti-lock brakes. If something like this were mounted sideways, it could automatically adjust the bias according to lateral G-force...

[Tintop]

You can't adjust for loading scotty, there is too much variation.  Chair wheel load is dependant on passenger position, and in a left turn if it's even on the ground.  I'm going to use Bear's method.  Put the rear brake on fully, and adjust the bias so that the chair wheel can just be moved by hand. 

On another note I spoke with Denis Curtis today, and he's going to take a look at the frame situation and figure out how to fix it before Mosport.  Can't thank Denis enough for the support he and Byron @ CMR Racing Products have shown for this adventure into sidecars.

[Syscrush]

On another note I spoke with Denis Curtis today, and he's going to take a look at the frame situation and figure out how to fix it before Mosport.  Can't thank Denis enough for the support he and Byron @ CMR Racing Products have shown for this adventure into sidecars.

That's double-exciting - glad to hear that you're going to have stuff sorted for Mosport, and glad to hear that you guys are working together again.

[Tintop]

So I've got the brakes re-plumbed.  Front brake is now a two finger operation, because of the 5/8 master.   However, bleeding the new rear / chair brake system is going to be a pain, lots of places for air to get trapped.   Time to look into a power bleeder I think.  Anyone tried one of these? 

[Retro Rocket]

Not too sure if this will help much, Without doubt, the best way to bleed your brakes is to get someone else to do them, works a treat.... ...j/k

[bwaller]

It's obviously easier on a two wheeler Brian, but I try to get the lines as straight as possible to bleed most of the air through the master. Speedbleeders are a godsend too. Is there any way to remove the master and have it perched above to straighten out the lines? Honestly.....I imagine not. 

I tried some sort of power bleeder once but it was a POS. That time I was pulling my hair out. It turned out to be a bad cylinder, mounted another and it bled up in two minutes.  If your struggling, go to the peeler bar for a spell and get your mind of it. I think that's in the manual!

Will you make the Classic? 

[Tintop]

Not a hope trying to get things straight bw.  Best I can do is trying changing which side is higher with jack stands.  There's more ups / downs / bends in the lines than a rollercoaster.

As for the peeler bar....this is Kingston, last one here closed years ago.

As for the Classic, it's a go, everything else is done.  Just may not have any rear, or chair brake.  According the the Minnetts I don't need them anyway.

[bwaller]

Ah just give Hopper an anchor and a short rope.....just in case you get in hot somewhere 

[Tintop]

Ah just give Hopper an anchor and a short rope.....just in case you get in hot somewhere 

After giving him a taste of crosscountry sidecar he knows to hold on now, and he's use to the thing dancing underneath us.  Good news is we don't use much in the way of brakes on the Nelson, and with it finally shifting even less.  Of course that's what got us/me into trouble at the last round.

[Tintop]

Just saw the results from the last race.  My 1st lap from standing start was faster than the 3rd place guy's best lap.  To bad I only did 1 2/3rd's laps.

[Tintop]

So I got the bl#ody rear / chair brake bleed today, and by today I mean it took all day.  About the only position I didn't have it in was standing on it's tail.   Looks like this should work.  Played with the bias adjuster, kept changing it until the chair wheel was locked, then backed it off.  When the rear is locked now I can just turn the chair wheel by hand.

Just have to remember to use the rear brake now.

[bear]

How are things shaping up for the weekend Brian?

[Tintop]

How are things shaping up for the weekend Brian?

Bike's ready to go.  Had to have a new bung welded on the gas tank.  It was just beginning to develop a leak.  Started it yesterday for a final check with pressure in the fuel lines.  No leaks, so all is good, and a fresh can of 98 standing by.  Going to have to be careful with the front brake in the 1st practice as the M/C is now a bit oversized without having to handle the chair, not much feel.  That said, with the thing shifting now, really only need all the brakes for one turn.  Just have to remember to use the rear.   Gear box & maybe some light front will handle the rest.

Looks like it will be the same field Brian, so if I can keep it on the island this time should be in the hunt again.  P/U a new GoPro, and think the old one is sorted, so should have some video, front & back.

[Sam Green Racing]

Best of luck Brian. 

[Tintop]

Thanks Sam.

[FuZZie]

Cool, looking forward to seeing your video! I hope all the action is happening in the rear one though.

[bear]

Sorry to hear about Bent's mishap.
How did you and Hopper go Brian?

Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

Sorry to hear about Bent's mishap.
How did you and Hopper go Brian?

Cheers,
Brian

Quick answer - we survived, finished 5th .  I did get some video of the P2 Sidecar Main.  As soon as I figure out how to edit it, I'll post it.

There were cars (street) on the track Friday.  Common thought is a combination rubber, and maybe silicon oil was laid down.  If you got off line it was like going from a dry track to a wet one.  Corner #2 / 3 was the worst, that's were Brent went down, along with 9 others.  How bad was it....new (dubiuos) record of incidents (old was 18 for a weekend, from a long time ago), I stopped keeping track when it got into the mid twenties.  Even had a sidecar over in 1st practice.

Long answer - Heat winner set a new lap record in qualifying, I had a good race going for 3rd, but left the door open on the inside going into 2.  He came inside me, and I moved my line over when he started to push, got in the marbles and basically tried not to do what Brent did.  Lost enough track that figured I'd save equipment, and take the 4th starting spot.  Another crappy start in the main, stayed 4th.   Had a great dice with two other bikes for a couple of laps (2 more Wittaker GBF's / Yamaha, & Triumph).  At one point the Triumph tried to pass me going onto the pit straight.  As we passed him back, Hopper reached out and patted his windscreen.   Then I got past into 3rd, with an inside pass in 2.   A PB lap time, and then the clutch started to go away.  Came down into 5 (hairpin), and it wouldn't down shift, no engine braking, hit the brakes harder, and it spun.  Quite interesting in the video, especially when everyone goes by.  Finished the race, but gear changes were iffy.  So new 'to do' list for Mosport now includes clutch work again.

[bear]

All good mate, look forward to the video.

Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

Not the finished video, just the race part.  Driver's eye view from camera on the bubble.  The churp at 3:56 is my front wheel locking , on the re-pass at 4:59 Hopper reach over and patted their bubble . 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbbjf6KKB4&feature=em-upload_owner