Author Topic: Vintage sidecar rebuild - new video  (Read 90683 times)

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Offline bear

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2012, 04:04:27 am »
Sounds like your getting close Brian.
Have you got someone there to help you out with the basics steering these things?

Cheers,
Brian
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2012, 04:50:49 am »
Don't you learn that when you come to the first corner.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Stay safe you Brians. ;)
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Offline bear

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2012, 06:22:12 pm »
Don't you learn that when you come to the first corner.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Stay safe you Brians. ;)

I've been at it since 1982 Sammy, that's a long long way past the first corner and it's pretty obvious I still haven't got it right. ;D

Cheers,
Brian
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 06:24:04 pm by bear »
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Offline Greg H

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #53 on: May 07, 2012, 02:49:24 am »
I'm loving this  :) I used to run a GSXR powered longwheelbase (F1) outfit back in the day . So anything about 3 wheelers always gets my attention . Good luck in the future  :)

Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2012, 07:23:11 pm »
Sounds like your getting close Brian.
Have you got someone there to help you out with the basics steering these things?

Cheers,
Brian

From what I've seen / heard / been told Bear, these things steer like 4 wheelers, not counter steer like a solo.  The front trail is adjustable, so I'll play with that to get the right balance between quick turn-in, and straight line stability.  I've also been told that with these 16" rigs, you have to slide them.  Sounds alot like the Cortina. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Couple of pic's of were its at now.  Body work gets paint next week, and I'll install the passenger pad this week.  Just waiting for the gaskets & seals and the engine goes together.  Did add one trick to the tranny.  New 1st primary & 5th gear, both less one tooth.  Should give a better start, and pull better at the top.

It rolls again!! ;D


New chair wheel brake (Mini rear drum), and rebuilt / refurbished front & rear brakes -




Electrics tray all wired up -


Greg H - I've also got a Fiddeman that, once rebuilt, will run in P3 (900cc +5%).  Engine choice is a 915+ SOHC, or a 900F DOHC. 
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline brooze72

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2012, 07:26:53 pm »
Looking good, Brian, when is the engine supposed to be ready?
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2012, 07:30:06 pm »
Looking good, Brian, when is the engine supposed to be ready?

A month and half ago, but I still have 2 1/2 weeks. ::)
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline tweakin

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2012, 08:14:12 pm »
Great to see all the progress. 

Offline bear

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #58 on: May 09, 2012, 06:28:45 am »
Sounds like your getting close Brian.
Have you got someone there to help you out with the basics steering these things?

Cheers,
Brian

From what I've seen / heard / been told Bear, these things steer like 4 wheelers, not counter steer like a solo.  The front trail is adjustable, so I'll play with that to get the right balance between quick turn-in, and straight line stability.  I've also been told that with these 16" rigs, you have to slide them.  Sounds a lot like the Cortina. ;D ;D ;D ;D

To state the obvious, all these things are different.
Having said that, most traditional chairs share the same characteristics.

Most chairs don't like a lot of trail.

Most chairs (like yours with the platform on the riders left) will overstear going around a right hand corner and under steer around a left hand corner.

Try not to carry a lot of speed into left hand corners for awhile, slow in fast out as they say.
Try about 3/4" of trail to start.
If it dosen't shake its head to badly reduce the trail till it starts shaking it's head then add a !/4".

To much trail and the bikes steering will be to heavy and it will tend to under steer badly.
You will need to get this thing over steering both ways some times this is not an easy task.

Adjust the spring rate on your rear shocks as stiff as you can.
Then, over time reduce the preload till the bike starts under steering then add a bit.
If you think you need a hand measuring you trail let me know.
If you have tried all of these things and the bike is still under steering adjust the rear wheel away from the corner a little.

As for the car thing, you will find that chairs are a hell of a lot more throttle sensitive.
Take care and let us know how it goes.

That's all my unsolicited advice for today. ;D ;D ;D


Cheers,
Brian
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline buca

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2012, 06:39:12 am »
Sounds like your getting close Brian.
Have you got someone there to help you out with the basics steering these things?

Cheers,
Brian
Hi I am Borivoje , Gedeonn alpha mc Vrsac Serbia. I was organizing classic motorcycle race for five years 2002...2006. Was restored Helmut Fath design side car from early 80 is. Original Yamaha 2 stroke engine was lost long time ago. I instal 4 stroke Kawa engine from period. Raced with,for few years. Sending avi. plus photo from last race I organized at local airport.

Offline bear

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2012, 06:48:53 am »
G'day  Borivoje,

That looks like quite beast you have got there.
Welcome aboard.

Cheers,
Brian
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline buca

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2012, 06:51:43 am »
Sounds like your getting close Brian.
Have you got someone there to help you out with the basics steering these things?

Cheers,
Brian

Here is photo of my side car. This is test ride after clutch rebuilt. My son as passanger and friend Paul from West Palm Beech standing by. Test it at local airport. It have 5 calliper brake sistem. Foot operated 4 calipers and one from three on front wheel operated with hand lever.

This year will ride Transamericas motorcycle world record attempt riding my 1981. CB 650.

Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2012, 07:02:11 pm »
Thanks for the advice Bear.  I'll take a baseline trail measurement once the engine is in, then work from there.  The current setup is 'as last raced'.  In the front brake pic you can see a 'winged' washer behind the nut.  The wing is longer on one side, flipping it changes trail.  I have a 2nd set with different length 'wings'.  Basically gives me x4 trail settings.  The previous owner was 120lbs+ heavier, so over stiff springing maybe an issue.  Even with everything at full soft I get no sag when I sit on it.

Your comments about over / understeer are noted.  What kind of alignment (camber / toe) do you run on your chair wheel?  Mine's currently setup with slight neg camber, & as close to zero toe-in as I could get at present.  I'll 'string it' to get hard numbers once the engine is in.

Interesting outfits Borivoje.  Thanks for posting the pic's.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2012, 06:14:38 pm »
Had a productive day making the panels, and gluing on the padding for the passenger (swinger to you Bear!).  I'll pick up some marine vinyl to cover them tomorrow, then do the final fit.  Also got some good news, my gaskets & seals should be here early this week.  YEAH, time to put an engine together!!  After your last post Brian, I took a look at the trail, and reduced it by flipping the washers.  Easy enough to move it back if it shakes it's head too much; and I've also got that adjustable NHK steering damper to help out.

Front & Rear alloy base panels, and with the foam installed.  They will be riveted to the main floor panels from underneath.




1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline bear

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2012, 05:52:55 am »
After your last post Brian, I took a look at the trail, and reduced it by flipping the washers.  Easy enough to move it back if it shakes it's head too much; and I've also got that adjustable NHK steering damper to help out.

Sounds good Brian.
With regard to trail adjustment, a bloke here called Stev Baliss (Ozzy sidecar legend) once told me. "If you see God when you back off at the end of the straight you've got your trail adjustment right. If he's blurry add a bit." ;D ;D

Cheers,
Brian
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2012, 03:44:46 pm »
After your last post Brian, I took a look at the trail, and reduced it by flipping the washers.  Easy enough to move it back if it shakes it's head too much; and I've also got that adjustable NHK steering damper to help out.

Sounds good Brian.
With regard to trail adjustment, a bloke here called Stev Baliss (Ozzy sidecar legend) once told me. "If you see God when you back off at the end of the straight you've got your trail adjustment right. If he's blurry add a bit." ;D ;D

Cheers,
Brian

Haha, nice analogy there Bear... ;)  Looking good Brian, i always wanted to swing on a sidecar, pity you are so far away.... ;)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2012, 03:52:13 pm »
It's only a airplane ride away Mick, no need to get your feet wet. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline bear

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2012, 04:11:31 pm »
We get up to Morgan Park every now and then.
I'm shore we could arrange something Mick. ;D
Once I find my feet that is. (It's not that I don't know where they I just can't feel them at the moment.) ;D

Cheers,
Brian
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2012, 07:53:49 pm »
We get up to Morgan Park every now and then.
I'm shore we could arrange something Mick. ;D
Once I find my feet that is. (It's not that I don't know where they I just can't feel them at the moment.) ;D

Cheers,
Brian

That is very tempting Brian, and with your new found silhouette my 67 kilo's may just get us round a corner..... ;D
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2012, 02:52:23 pm »
God has always been slightly blurry to me Bear.  Of course it could also just be finger prints on the glasses. ;D ;D

Finished the passenger padding today.  Got a call to say the new manifold port matching is done, so it gets P/U tomorrow.  Also the last of my fuel & oil fittings are in.  Probably try and drop the engine off late in the afternoon.

1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2012, 05:39:11 pm »
I'm tuned in...........I think I saw this rig run a few times at Road America several years ago.  AHRMA is at RA on June 9-10 with a practice day on June 8. Let me know if your going to make it.  I can offer a few accomodations.  I sold my XS650 street bike but was tempted to install the big jugs.........you will need larger carbs but the head is somewhat restrictive in the valve area.
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2012, 05:53:23 pm »
Thanks for the offer Old Scambler, but I won't make it to RA this year.  The rules restrict the carb(s) to a 34mm venturi, and stock valves.  So everyone runs Mikuni VM34's.  However I'm not everyone, I'll be running a Weber 40DCOE, with 34 chokes. ;D ;D  The head is ported, and runs a Shell TT cam with racing springs.  Ignition is Boyer (came with it).  With the Wiesco pistons it will be making 60+ @ 7500.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline bear

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2012, 11:36:38 pm »
The Weber is a good choice for a sidecar application.
Less susceptible to surge than motorcycle carbs.

Cheers,
Brian
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2012, 06:08:16 pm »
Finally got my manifold back from being port matched.  Doug Forbes did a great job blending the transition.  Did a quick check to see how things all fit, using the empty 2ND engine.  I may need to use studs & nuts, instead of the bolts, like the XS usually does.  I'm sure this is going to cause a commotion the 1st time it comes off the trailer. ::)


1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Tintop

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Re: Vintage sidecar rebuild
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2012, 06:54:45 pm »
P/U the race engine today ;D, I'll put it in later this week.  1st I have to have the pipe mod'ed, and will use the dummy, which is already in the frame.


1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

 

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