Topic: Vintage sidecar rebuild - new video

[MRieck]

Congrats to Brian for his heat race win today. He led most of the way but fell to 2nd two laps from the end. He made a nice pass on the brakes into the last turn for the win. Great tight race.

Wonder how you made out old timer?

[Tintop]

Back from the races.  The Waller family did great, I'll let Brent tell you all about it.

As for mine the good news was yesterday.  A qualifying heat race win, and good practice sessions.  Today didn't go so well, although it did have one bright spot.  An intermittent ignition issue cropped up in practice.  The engine would just cut out, but start right up again off the starter.  The good part was starting on the pole for the final, and leading until the middle of #3.  At which point the engine died, the bad.  End of personal race report.   There might be 15 seconds of video from the rear camera, haven't checked yet.

As for the engine, it was strong, and got stronger as the weekend progressed.  Has a nice nasty edge to it now Mike.   Plan on doing a leak down once I'm unloaded.  Some minor carb issues to sort, a new ignition, and stronger clutch springs are already on the to do sheet..

The sidecar race turned into a reliability run, with the field decimated through mechanical breakdowns, and passengers falling off for various reasons.   P2 was won by last year's class champion on a BMW 750.  A just finished big wheel won P1, with a flat twin 750 (not BMW ).

[Tintop]

So the ignition issue is definitely intermittent.   No problem restarting this evening.....Ba#4ard!.   Must say though the engine taxed the starter, must having something to do with that top end Mike: and it does sound sweet at the end of the video going from a steady 2 to 4K. ,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vygr6blGA74&feature=youtu.be

Please note: That human audio is not provided, do to profanity regulations on this forum.

 

[bear]

Sounds good mate.
Don't forget to check the wiring and kill switch first.
I've been bitten on the arse by a dodgy kill more than once.
I just use a loop these days.

Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

I suspect that it is the ignition plate wiring loom that is the dodgy part Brian.  From what I can determine the system is at least 7 years old, could be 10.  The wire insulation is getting brittle, and starting to crack.   Add to that, a PO has been in there before, but up until now I've never had an issue.  I'll also check the switch (ignition / starter), but it's the main cut-out, and after the engine died the pump was still running.  So the main electrics didn't fail, just the ignition.

[Tintop]

The one thing that worked really well was the new clutch actuator.  Bike shifted perfectly from the get go, and the custom clutch cable from Motion Pro fit perfectly.  The photo also shows the new fuel pressure gauge.

[Tintop]

Nothing new with the #239, except that the rings aren't sealing properly.   Trying to decide on the best way to fix the issue.

On a better note, got to be the monkey on a 1st test of a new P2 Yamaha with the builder.  Only comment is I'm glad I like driving, as being a monkey in 30C temperatures sucks.  Also it seems my foot work leaves something to be desired.

The Purple monster -



A friend also brought out his P3 with a GT750 engine.  1st time both have been back on the track in over 10 years.

[bear]

Nothing new with the #239, except that the rings aren't sealing properly.   Trying to decide on the best way to fix the issue

I gather the leak down didn't go well.
How did you go with the ignition?

Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

The ignition issue was dried out insulation, and breaking wires at the P/U plate.  The P/U plate was 7 years old, and the heat from the head had finally done its work.  I've replaced it with a new plate so that issue is resolved.

Leak down was not promising, and neither was a compression test.  Did a wet compression test and it confirmed the rings are not sealing well.

Both Mike and I knew there could be an issue as the bores were max'd out relative to piston / ring size.  Likely the best way forward is to re-sleeve so I can go back to 80mm pistons, and give myself two more oversizes to go to later.  I've not had much luck with the Wiescos (or are they really copies??).  So I'm looking at going with JE's that offer 10.5 - 1, and new LA Sleeves.  Likely means the bike will miss the next race, but I'm trying to find a ride while I re-do it for Mosport.  Two P3 possibilities a BMW, and the GT750. 

[POPS 911]

I wonder do they ever run that side car class at MID OHIO ROAD RACE TRACK during vintage days ??  Got to be #1 on my bucket list.

[Tintop]

They do run the chairs @ Mid Ohio Pops, can't remember if its an AMA, or AHRMA event.  It's usually a conflict date with one of ours though.  Barber is the one that most up here want to go to.

[Tintop]

Decided to run the bike as it is.  It wasn't smoking at the last race, so I figure its most likely the pistons, with some ring issue thrown in.   As Mike has said to me a couple of times there's more in it, but no time to find it now (2 1/2 weeks to next race).  If I don't run the next race I'm out of the championship, so figure I might as well go.  If it starts to go south I'll park it, order new pistons, sleeves, and get it ready for Mosport.  Good thing at this time is I know where every thing has to come from.

[bwaller]

Yup, go man go. Brian my first winter in Vancouver I finally shut my 750 down long enough to replace the home made 810/350 pistons. Clearance was 0.006". I was twenty....they had a hard life! Bores were oval, tapered, plain worn out and with 1 pc oil rings it smoked like a 007 spy bike but ran so well otherwise. 

You know the old saying...they run best just before they blow.  Just joking, try to finish your season. 

[Tintop]

Yup, go man go. Brian my first winter in Vancouver I finally shut my 750 down long enough to replace the home made 810/350 pistons. Clearance was 0.006". I was twenty....they had a hard life! Bores were oval, tapered, plain worn out and with 1 pc oil rings it smoked like a 007 spy bike but ran so well otherwise. 

You know the old saying...they run best just before they blow.  Just joking, try to finish your season. 

If that's the case this thing will run forever.

[bear]

I'm with you blokes, run it.
Piston and sleeve wear aren't a problem in this case, their up for replacment anyway.

On another note, does this mean the possible PI trip is looking a little dodgey?
.
Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

I'll have a better idea about PI after the race weekend (July 19/20) Brian.  Will let you know then.

[bear]

Ready to go for the weekend Brian?
.
Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

Now that it has a new P/U plate, just have to check the timing Brian.  I also need to drain the tank, and mix the last of the 98 race fuel (about a gallon), with 94 pump gas.  Figure I'm not making enough compression to warrant the expense of the race fuel.  Should be all loaded and ready for the road Thursday night.  About a 6 hour drive, so plan is to leave early Friday morning.

[bear]

Does the meeting have timing posted to the web?
Any other way to keep track?

Cheers,
Brian

[Tintop]

Does the meeting have timing posted to the web?
Any other way to keep track?

Cheers,
Brian

Sorry no Brian, it's just a club event.  There should be someone there with a WiFi linked computer, so I'll try to do a short post to the thread.  It's a new track for all the sidecar guys, so should be interesting.   We only have 2 practice sessions on Saturday AM to find our way around, and decide on gearing.  It's an old airport track, so very flat, and given how low you are on a sidecar should make finding braking / turn-in points fun.

[bwaller]

Yeah, flatter than piss on a platter!

Leaving in an hour Brian, see you there.

[bear]

Good luck gentlemen,  play safe.

Cheers,
Brian

[Retro Rocket]

Good luck gentlemen,  play safe.

Cheers,
Brian

+1, good luck guys...

[Tintop]

Just back in the door, and 1st chance to update.  Brent upheld the SOHC/4 banner very well.

Brian you'll relate to this....2/3rd's of the way to the track (4 of 6+ hrs) I stop for a bite, water, & gas @ the highway rest stop.  Go to leave the pumps, and the dash lights up like a Christmas tree...'reduced power / traction fault'.  Three hours later, after a tow, re & re an air mass sensor, and some minor tranny work, back on the way.   The really good part was having another member (Allen) stop, and take my trailer to the track.

As for what happened....Once I got there, found out the a sidecar member from the track area had bought an hour at the end of Friday.  So the sidecars (about 12 to start) got some track time to figure out where it went.  Nada / zero / none!!  of anything for a real reference point, and the track was narrow, but the runway part wide.  Free practice was interesting.   Passenger got caught out on the 2 / 3 left / right transition.  Late going in (chair wheel waayyy up), moved to quick for the right (chair wheel up again), got my attention!  Saturday there was a very light rain (almost like a mist) to start, cleared up a bit, then rain.  Did two morning practice sessions in the dry, worked on a couple of corners, and 'test' chased various bike down the straight.  Bike was running great; the engine was really strong in 3rd & 4th from high 5K to 7000.  By the time our race came around mid Saturday afternoon, the track was soaked, and it was raining.  Third going onto the back straight.  1/2 way down the front two bikes go side by side, and in the spay, I can't see my tach let alone the track.  Too make matters worse I have the worn rear tire on; great in the dry, cr#p in the rain.  Every time I opened the throttle coming out of a corner, the rear tire would spin.  Wasn't  going  to win the qualifier, so decided to 'keep it on the island', and finish.  Sunday AM practice was dry, bike was running well.  Started 7th in the final.  Got an OK start, but decided not to stuff it down into the inside of the 1st corner.  My initial patience paid off at the next corner when the group in front tried to put three into where only one fits.  Lots of tire smoke, and bobbing and weaving in front of me, and more than one down the escape road.   Came out of the next corner in 3rd.  Next lap just far enough back that I couldn't make a clean pass on the back straight for second.  Next lap made the pass, topped out 5th, and was just about to brake when the engine died.  Definitely ignition.   Parked it, and at the end it re-started  so we got the chequer, but multiple laps down.    Lots of work to do before Mosport.

[Tintop]

Unloaded everything last night.  Time to start resolving the engine cutting out.  This has happen twice now.  Both times involved either heavy braking, and / or a right turn.  1st time it was 1/2 way in the turn, the last time under heavy braking in a straight line.  At this point I don't think it is carb related (float being load / stuck) as the engine just cuts out.  Not in a way you would associate with fuel starvation, more like the ignition has been switched off. 

First thing I've done is check the battery voltage, as it sits, and then after being on the trickle charger.  12.34V was the reading last night, and 13.8V this morning after sitting on the trickle charger.  At this point looks like I can rule out a battery issue.  Next up will be to check the charging system.