Author Topic: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?  (Read 2861 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« on: February 28, 2012, 04:18:36 PM »
I started relacing my wheels today and it's been rough. I can't get the hub to move enough to get the last set of 10 outers even close to the holes. The spokes are as loose as they can get and I double and triple checked the bends and lengths. Should I have done outers first? I followed the FAQ and it started with inners. It is a standard 18" cb550 rear rim and hub.

Offline Drewster

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 04:31:41 PM »
If they are all in right, try raising or lowering  the hub.

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 04:36:02 PM »
They are in right. Hub won't budge

Offline Grabcon

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 354
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 04:43:21 PM »
Make sure that all spokes are as loose as possible. Once all are in then tighten. Also is the pattern correct?
CB750   1974 - Gone
CB750F 1976 - Gone :(
CB550   1978 - Gone & now back
CB900F 1981 - Gone
ST1100 1991 - Gone
ST1100 2000 - Gone
VFR800 2008 - Gone
ST1300 2008 - Gone
BMW F700GS - Wife's
VFR1200X 2016 - Mine

nomad

  • Guest
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 05:12:12 PM »
I started relacing my wheels today and it's been rough. I can't get the hub to move enough to get the last set of 10 outers even close to the holes.

I had the same exact issues with my 750 rear hub.  The best way to fix it is to give it to your trusted bike mechanic to do it.  ;D

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 05:51:40 PM »
Got em on. Now, should the nipples all be threaded on the exact same distance?

Offline Drewster

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 06:19:46 PM »
I've had luck with turning each spoke the same number of turns,  working your way around the rim - start at the valve hole.  Make sure the hub is centered to the rim. Don't try to get the spokes snug the first time around.  You will  have to make 5 or 6 passes all around the rim - 8 turns, 5 turns, 3 or 4 turns etc..  That being said, when they are all snug, you'll have to tune the spokes and true the wheel.  Try doing a search on that, as it's somewhat involved

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 07:56:18 PM »
One down, one to go!!

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,100
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 08:05:55 PM »
Nice looking wheel  :).
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 08:08:23 PM »
Picked them up from the powder coater today.

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,100
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 08:16:39 PM »
What will you use as a truing stand ? will it be able to measure the "up & down hop" and the "side to side" runout ? I use a Park bicycle truing stand and open it up all the way..as wide as possible & it just about fits.I found this Park TS-2 stand on CL for $90 2 years ago & bought it the first day the add came out..they're usually $200 New.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 08:56:20 PM »
My friend took the truing stand from the local motorcycle shop when it closed down. He worked there in the summers and they said he could have it.

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,100
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 10:36:58 PM »
Excellent !
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 05:17:10 AM »
Really screwed up the front:) I find that you have to keep that hub twisted the right amount or it really screws up your brain!!

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 04:18:13 PM »
Done!!

Offline adrianm1972

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 10:09:04 PM »
I was a bicycle mechanic for years and I have laced hundreds of wheels (I used to wrench for a road racing team).  I only just start the nipples when lacing a wheel.  Once all the spokes are in pop the wheel in a truing stand and tighten all the nipples equally.  Usually one full turn at a time until the wheel tension comes up.  After that I start truing and never tighten more than 1/4 turn at a time.  Keep in mind you have 4 goals.  You wan the wheel straight, dished evenly left to right, concentric with the hub and round.  This all happens simultaneously as you true the wheel.  It sounds harder than it really is.  The key is to go SLOW!

DO NOT TRY to get the wheel to full tension right away!  The whole process of truing goes smoother if the wheel is lightly tensioned and all your threads and nipples are oiled or greased.

If you  don't have a truing stand you can do it in your fork or frame just fine.  Assemble it with all the normal spacers and parts but no tire.  Zip tie a ruler across the top of the fork or swingarm so you can find the high spots and measure the distance from each side of the rim to center the rim.  when you are round and centered, zip tie a screwdriver to on side of the fork/arm and use it as a feeler to true out the last wobbles.

After the wheel is round, straight and centered then you can tension the wheel by tightening up all nipples a1/4 turn at a time until you are where you want it to be.  I like to strike each spoke with a screwdriver to hear its tone.  If you did this right they should all sound very close to the same....ding, ding, ding, ding,....etc.  If you hear a dong or ting tighten or loosen that spoke until the is close in tension to its neighbors and recheck the true-ness of the wheel.

This take some time (this is why techs and Buchannan's charge $$ for this service).

Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 10:11:09 PM by adrianm1972 »

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 04:56:57 AM »
Thanks for the tips!! I think I will just drop the wheels off at my friends house so he can use his truing stand :D

Offline Milkman666

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • It's not junk, Honey - it's a classic!
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 05:17:55 AM »
Ding, ding, ding, dong, ting... try that with a GSX-R!

I love this forum!
Milkman
"Everything works if you let it." - Travis W. Redfish
1975 CB750F
2006 VTX 1300C

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,717
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 05:40:07 PM »
What will you use as a truing stand ? will it be able to measure the "up & down hop" and the "side to side" runout ? I use a Park bicycle truing stand and open it up all the way..as wide as possible & it just about fits.I found this Park TS-2 stand on CL for $90 2 years ago & bought it the first day the add came out..they're usually $200 New.

Trueing stand.
Just turn your swing arm upside down and clamp it a vice.

See what I mean?

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,100
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 06:02:57 PM »
I was a bicycle mechanic for years and I have laced hundreds of wheels (I used to wrench for a road racing team).  I only just start the nipples when lacing a wheel.  Once all the spokes are in pop the wheel in a truing stand and tighten all the nipples equally.  Usually one full turn at a time until the wheel tension comes up.  After that I start truing and never tighten more than 1/4 turn at a time.  Keep in mind you have 4 goals.  You wan the wheel straight, dished evenly left to right, concentric with the hub and round.  This all happens simultaneously as you true the wheel.  It sounds harder than it really is.  The key is to go SLOW!

DO NOT TRY to get the wheel to full tension right away!  The whole process of truing goes smoother if the wheel is lightly tensioned and all your threads and nipples are oiled or greased.

If you  don't have a truing stand you can do it in your fork or frame just fine.  Assemble it with all the normal spacers and parts but no tire.  Zip tie a ruler across the top of the fork or swingarm so you can find the high spots and measure the distance from each side of the rim to center the rim.  when you are round and centered, zip tie a screwdriver to on side of the fork/arm and use it as a feeler to true out the last wobbles.

After the wheel is round, straight and centered then you can tension the wheel by tightening up all nipples a1/4 turn at a time until you are where you want it to be.  I like to strike each spoke with a screwdriver to hear its tone.  If you did this right they should all sound very close to the same....ding, ding, ding, ding,....etc.  If you hear a dong or ting tighten or loosen that spoke until the is close in tension to its neighbors and recheck the true-ness of the wheel.

This take some time (this is why techs and Buchannan's charge $$ for this service).

Hope this helps!
++1 !  ;) :) with New spokes you can usually gauge the amount to initially tighten each spoke..just to get them started...with the amount of threads showing on each spoke where they meet each spoke nipple;a kind of equal length way just to start out.I think used ones need a bit more time to "true-up";what was said here about "dished evenly left to right.." is very important.The wheel must be exactly straight and CENTERED right in the exact Middle of the frame..both front & rear wheels;to do this correctly you'll need to be sure you find the CENTERLINE of the frame where the wheels belong...it's all accomplished with the "Dishing"  ;). adrianm1972 will tell you how to find that,...it's REAL important !  :)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 06:15:54 PM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,100
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2012, 09:13:45 PM »
How did the lacing and truing work out for you Rob ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline robdrobd

  • Who? Me?
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,519
  • Isn't she a beauty?
Can't get last 10 outer spokes on?
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2012, 09:22:26 PM »
I got them laced up and off to my friends garage. He'll have them trued up in about a week. Then tires, balance, mount. Tires are a big step in a build. They give you that good inspirational mock up that keeps you going :)