Topic: Slab Leak! (Drywall repair)

[fmctm1sw]

Well, there went $800.  Pipes that run UNDER my house leak.  Still have a leak too small to pinpoint.  Mulling my options now...  Learned a lot of neat stuff over the past few days.  One being that you can screw a garden hose right onto your water heater for a hot shower!  With 6 nozzle settings no less 

[BeSeeingYou]

Other than the main supply coming in from the street why would there be any reason to put any other supply pipes under the slab?  Shakes head in disbelief and wanders away.  

Any way to isolate the leaker and run new supplies from the main?  Just used PEX to redo an older house.  Great stuff for difficult situations.

[fmctm1sw]

Other than the main supply coming in from the street why would there be any reason to put any other supply pipes under the slab?  Shakes head in disbelief and wanders away.  

Any way to isolate the leaker and run new supplies from the main?  Just used PEX to redo an older house.  Great stuff for difficult situations.

That's how they do (did?) it here.  The house is only 12 years old but I gather it's a problem in sandy soils types.  Got my neighbors sweating bullets now too.  The guy that was here today used PEX.  No (simple and non invasive) way to isolate either.  Yeah, under 4 inches of concrete.  Where was the guy back then asking, "hey, what happens if that stuff starts leaking..." 

[Don R]

I've built soffits to contain the new pipes. The problem in a one story slab house is, go under or over and risk freezing? I always wrapped the copper tube in armaflex pipe insulation and tried to keep it deep under the concrete in fill sand. I did an entire nursing home that way. By the bid and blueprint. I begged the owner to let me turn up with isolation valves. No dice. The owners called me one day and asked how to isolate a branch. I replied, remember when I asked you that?

[BeSeeingYou]

It's a type of construction that is unusual here.  We have basements and foundations.  Everything is  accessible AND you have a place for all your stuff.  Of course my 90 year old basement leaks in a heavy rainstorm.   We put our garages on slabs.

[faux fiddy]

I talked about the framing noobs that did the plumbing walls with 2x4's in this house.  Other than the one half bath the stub for the ice maker comes up just on the edge of the 2x4 sill plate.  They left the sheetrock off and tacked a piece of 1/4"plywood behind the fridge, no tight fit at all.  Figured out that is where the mice were taking up residence. It was real fun coaxing that thing behind the notch in the sheetrock when I installed it, could have been a disaster if it pinched the tube at the surface of the concrete.

It's all working fine, and this house is in sand, but I think they dumped a bunch of rock before they poured the slab  so it is not cracking apart, just sinking evenly.

But dangit, your situation sounds like a lifelong  whack-a-mole  of plumbing problems.  How far down is the rock?  There are services that shoot  rod down and jack stuff up, ir is it even cracking?

[jamesb]

my boss did that with all his buildings back in the 50's and 60's he even ran the electrical that way it sucks all most all of them had been abandoned now but there are a couple that still being used.we  cut a hole in the slab where in comes into the building and ran pex lines and rerouted everything in through the ceilings. pex is not supossed to break when it freezes but i heard from our plumbing company we use that mice like to chew on it for some reason.

[fmctm1sw]

But dangit, your situation sounds like a lifelong  whack-a-mole  of plumbing problems.  How far down is the rock?  There are services that shoot  rod down and jack stuff up, ir is it even cracking?

Yeah, I was skeptical when he made the first repair.  I said, "now that water pressure is restored, isn't that going to expose other weak spots?"  He did offer to replumb the house as mentioned by jamesb. 

[fmctm1sw]

Here's what greeted me at home yesterday after work.  Currently battling the insurance company over it...

[Bob Wessner]

Where is the water coming from?

[fmctm1sw]

Where is the water coming from?

Under the slab in the master bedroom closet.  For now, at least, until they dig it up and repair it and put pressure on other spots... 

[Bob Wessner]

Where is the water coming from?

Under the slab in the master bedroom closet.  For now, at least, until they dig it up and repair it and put pressure on other spots... 

Just curious, is there a drain field and sump (with pump) under most FL homes? I know few if any have basements because of the water table I guess.

[fmctm1sw]

Where is the water coming from?

Under the slab in the master bedroom closet.  For now, at least, until they dig it up and repair it and put pressure on other spots... 

Just curious, is there a drain field and sump (with pump) under most FL homes? I know few if any have basements because of the water table I guess.

They're all pretty much "slab on grade," that's the term I think.  I've had more than one water leak company tell me southwest Pensacola is a known trouble spot for this.  There's so much sand here, the ground soaks up pretty much everything.

[MCRider]

The house i grew up in, in Indiana was on a slab. Going on 65 years, never a problem. My nephew bot one only 10 years old, pipes springing leaks in the slab.

Think it has to do with the thickness of the copper pipe, which i understand varies quite a bit even in the same pipe, and chemical reaction with the soils and the concrete.

jackhammer time.   

Unless the heat ducts are in the slab as well,  (first house) I'd never do it in Indiana, floor is mighty cold. I lived in one of those too, even with slippers on, couldn't leave feet on the floor.

[Bob Wessner]

Where is the water coming from?

Under the slab in the master bedroom closet.  For now, at least, until they dig it up and repair it and put pressure on other spots... 

Just curious, is there a drain field and sump (with pump) under most FL homes? I know few if any have basements because of the water table I guess.

They're all pretty much "slab on grade," that's the term I think.  I've had more than one water leak company tell me southwest Pensacola is a known trouble spot for this.  There's so much sand here, the ground soaks up pretty much everything.

Surprised they don't require drain fields and sump pumps. Bummer. I hope you get some satisfaction. Good luck.

[fmctm1sw]

The house i grew up in, in Indiana was on a slab. Going on 65 years, never a problem. My nephew bot one only 10 years old, pipes springing leaks in the slab.

Think it has to do with the thickness of the copper pipe, which i understand varies quite a bit even in the same pipe, and chemical reaction with the soils and the concrete.

jackhammer time.   

The guy that  did the first repair gave me the pipe and showed me the thickness of what he put in vice this pipe.  I could easily see the difference.

[Duke McDukiedook]

3/4" pipe ?

[fmctm1sw]

3/4" pipe ?

yeah 3/4"  What I've learned is that there are 3 thickness ratings for copper pipe.  L, M, and something else.  Home inspector said tehy used 2x6s in my house and that was good for a house but it looks like they used the cheapest possible route on the pipes 

[BeSeeingYou]

I have found that when I do repairs on older homes from the 1950's-1960's the copper pipe has a thicker wall than the stuff in more recent times.  There is a commercial grade that is close to the old stuff but costs more so it probably does not get used much in residential.  Looks like the whole thing needs to be redone.  Neighbors are probably getting a little  nervous about their own.

[Duke McDukiedook]

You would think that someone would have created a better way to convey the MEP on slab-ongrade systems so they could be better maintained but this is residential construction we are talking about here. 

[Bob Wessner]

At least they no longer use galvanized. Our house was built in '41 and I guess that was the way they plumbed back then, just prior to the outbreak of WWII, so perhaps copper was already on the scarce list. Quite a few years ago, they developed small leaks on the hot water side, so spent a couple of weekends on and off building a parallel copper system and then just cut over at the ends when I was ready. Has worked well considering I'm no plumber.

[MCRider]

At least they no longer use galvanized. Our house was built in '41 and I guess that was the way they plumbed back then, just prior to the outbreak of WWII, so perhaps copper was already on the scarce list. Quite a few years ago, they developed small leaks on the hot water side, so spent a couple of weekends on and off building a parallel copper system and then just cut over at the ends when I was ready. Has worked well considering I'm no plumber.

My current home was built in 1950, virtually all galvanized, some copper. Was popping pinholes in the galvanized faster than I could repair them. Ripped it all out mostly, replaced with pex. Where it couldn't come out, just left it and plumbed around it. Luckily its on a basement and its a Cape Cod so most of the plumbing for both floors was in the same wall.

[Duke McDukiedook]

House built in 1951 here with the old galvanized on the cold and copper on the hot, I think I will probably want to go all copper when the basement bathroom goes in this summer. I could see doing pex for supply feeds but I think I would want to do copper for the main run just for copper's sake.

[fmctm1sw]

I spent a lot of time the last few days researching this.  I think I'd like to stay copper and route through the attic.  Routing this way seems to be the solution from the water leak people.  I sent all my photos to the insurance company so I should have an answer back tomorrow.  I'm wondering is how to best locate the pipes inside the walls without tearing everything up should I need to do this myself.  I looked at a few "metal finders" and have seen varied reviews on their performance.  I know this is "a job for the pros" but for nearly 3 grand to do the hot piping alone, I could get real good at sweating pipes together. 

[72 yellow]

6 houses in my neighborhood are built on a slab.  3 have converted to gas forced air furnaces.  Duct work runs in the attic. Vents are in the ceiling. You can sit there sweating at the same time your feet are cold.  The others have the pipes in the slab.  Only 1 has been lucky so far with no leaks.  All were built in the late 40's.  I have a basement and would never own a home without one.