Author Topic: elevation change question  (Read 1009 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Artf0rm

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
elevation change question
« on: March 05, 2012, 11:38:06 AM »
I am about to take my first long ride with my newly rebuild 76' cb750 equipped with CR29 carbs.  She runs great and idles great here where the elevation is 315 ft above sea level but my final destination is going to be the mountains where it is 3300 ft above sea level.  My question is this.  Am I going to have to do anything or should I bring anything to be able to drive my bike to the mountains?  Is 3k ft change going to require anything different?   

Offline nccb

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,145
  • 1974 CB750 Four
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 11:42:07 AM »
off topic: its going to be cold as hell in the mountains

Offline Artf0rm

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 11:42:59 AM »
This is a good point.. There will be a large change in temperature as well.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,802
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 12:12:29 PM »
Air density changes with both elevation and temperature.  What is of concern is how many oxygen molecules are in a gulp or volume of air.  Higher elevation reduces density, and spreads the molecules father apart causing less of them in a given volume of air.

Higher temperatures also spread the molecules apart, yielding less of them in a given volume of air.

Humidity is yet another factor, as introducing/suspending water molecules in the air, displaces some of the oxygen molecules in a given volume of air.

If we knew what air/fuel mixture ratios you are currently operating, we could make a guess at what elevation, temperature, and humidity might make to your engine operation.

The worst case would be moving to high elevation, high temperature and high humidity.  This would move your uncompensated fuel mix to the richer end of the scale, due to less oxygen being available to pair off with the hydrocarbons in the fuel.  Conversely, low elevation, low temperature and low humidity, would move the uncompensated mixture to the leaner end of the scale.

Generally speaking, if your engine is running rich at sea level, it will be worse ascending to a higher level.  Whether you will start losing extra power or sooting spark plugs will depend on current mixture settings, which no one on this forum can know without data collection.

A fourth factor is the barometric pressure, which also changes air density, as different weather patterns shift about the earth.  However, predicting weather is likely beyond the scope of this forum topic.  ;D

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Artf0rm

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 12:32:44 PM »
TwoTired... I don't even know what to say to all that science man.  Blew my mind.

This is what I know.  When it's 50 degrees here the bike runs great and anything higher, tested into the eighties so far.  I have noticed that it never really fully settles down to idle when it gets below 40 degrees and the colder say like 30 it has negligible power.  It's worse when it's damp.  This is why I am worried.  Normal conditions, it runs great but heading to the mountains I just want to make sure I can get there ok.  I just want to know I can get up the hill.

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 01:10:59 PM »
What is the experience of say, members in the Denver area? Have they experienced any issues that they had to compensate for? Seems like that would be a good test case since Denver is, I believe at approx. 5,000 ft.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline Prospect

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,171
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 01:56:05 PM »
standard temperature change per 1000 feet is 1.98 Celcius (3.5F)  so I don't think 3000 feet is going to make much of a difference in performance.  With the decreased air pressure at altitude you're going to have less air coming into the engine.  If you're having issues and are in bind you can temporairly take out the air filter to let more air in.  I'll let others chime in. 
Current Bikes

1969 CB750  Sandcast #256
1971 CB750K1
1972 CB750K1
1975 CB400F
1975 GL1000 Goldwing
1954 Harley Davidson Panhead
1957 Harley Davidson Panhead

Toronto Canada

Offline Artf0rm

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 02:08:44 PM »
Prospect,

Running pods would I really see a dramatic difference from removing them?

Offline Prospect

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,171
Re: elevation change question
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 02:35:12 PM »
Prospect,

Running pods would I really see a dramatic difference from removing them?

I think so.  But it's a bit of work to take them off and put them back on.  I would do it at as a last resort and only if I'm having problems.  I seem to recall there being a rule about adjusting the air screw 1/4 for every 1000 feet above sea level (at least on the 750).  I can't quite remember.  You'll have less air coming in so leaning the mixture will stabilize the ration of air to fuel.  I would try the air screw first before taking off the pods. 

Which bike is it?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 02:53:18 PM by Prospect »
Current Bikes

1969 CB750  Sandcast #256
1971 CB750K1
1972 CB750K1
1975 CB400F
1975 GL1000 Goldwing
1954 Harley Davidson Panhead
1957 Harley Davidson Panhead

Toronto Canada