Author Topic: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.  (Read 10498 times)

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Offline thrutheframe

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2012, 03:01:16 PM »
OK so I took the cables off and reinstalled them and everything was fine.  I have no idea where the vacuum line from the tee between carbs 2&3 goes.  There is only one tit on the pet cock and Ive accounted for all of the tits on the air box.  It was NOT hooked up when I got the bike.  Magpie?  I'm hoping you're going to bail me out here.

It seems to be going well other than a few little bumps in the road so far.  I'm leaving tomorrow until Sunday evening so I wont get anything done until Monday.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Magpie

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2012, 03:30:07 PM »
The line between 2 & 3 is just open to the air. I tucked mine up over the airbox. It's a breather I think to prevent vacuum in the float bowls (?).There's only one fuel line off the petcock going to the inlet between 1 & 2. Hope that helps. Cliff.

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2012, 04:15:09 PM »
Sure does, that also explains why it didn't have a hose clamp on it.  I appreciate your help very much.  The carb manual really helped a lot.  I AM doing this for money and will be getting a nice payday out of it regardless of the discount my buddy gets.  As a token of my appreciation I will donate $50.00 from the proceeds of this repair to the forum.   The people here have really been good to me and taught me a great deal in a little over a year.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2012, 08:28:06 PM »
Back on this one.  Jeremy came by today and gave me the new plates so I can test ride it all legal.  I got the carbs and air box on with minimal struggle.  The new rubber everywhere really helps. 
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Magpie

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2012, 11:05:53 PM »
The new rubber everywhere really helps
Amen to that and figuring out that the airbox actually moves backwards. I think there's still some blood on my bike in that area. Good work you are doing!
Cliff.

Offline thrutheframe

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2012, 07:52:04 AM »
Maybe I missed something but I couldnt get the airbox back enought to remove the carbs until I pulled the battery box which wouldn't come out without dropping the inner fender.  I should have it fired up today, though I'm a little concerned about the accelerator pump, it doesnt seem to work, luckily I have another diaphragm from my 650 that I plan to slide up in there with the carbs still on.  I initially thought sirius online was a godsend but the more of their stuff I buy the more of it I find that isn't within tolerance.  The bowl gaskets in these kits needed some serious massaging to make them fit right.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Magpie

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2012, 08:20:05 AM »
I got the airbox back by using a larger C clamp to pull it back. It just gave me enough clearance to not bugger up the rubber manifolds and bend the clamps out of shape. i read of one fellow that used thin sheet metal pieces in front of the manifolds to slide the carbs in. Did you check the diaphragm with a flashlight? Cliff.

Offline thrutheframe

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2012, 08:52:32 AM »
I didn't check it with a light, it's brand new.  I know, dont assume it's good because it's new.  :-[  The issue with these is that the two little "mickey mouse" ears that serve as the seals for the inlet and outlet don't line up just right, they prevent fuel from leaking out but they don't seal well enough internally to let the pump do its thing.   I had this same problem on my 650 carbs, again parts from sirius.  I have a couple laying around to choose from so I'm pretty sure I can get it going.  If not I'll bite the bullet and buy an OEM from Honda at my expense.  Dude has dropped some serious coin on parts so far and I feel like I steered him the wrong way on these parts.  My reputation is more important than $71.91.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Magpie

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2012, 12:38:44 PM »
Did you do the test on the pump as shown at the top of page 21? I had to do a lot of cleaning and fiddling to get gas to shoot out of the brass diffuser. I blew a lot of brake cleaner through there. Hopefully you have one that the ears will fit properly. Cliff.

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2012, 12:45:42 PM »
Yep it squirted when I cycled it by hand but it doesn't squirt on the bike.  I'll be firing it up later today or early tomorrow.   
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2012, 12:52:49 PM »
All put together.  We'll see about the accel pump.  I didn't real explain the situation very well but again yes it pumped when I worked it by hand but not with the throttle.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2012, 05:55:40 PM »
Well the accelerator pump seems ok, the idle goes to 2,800 rpm when I choke it.  I'm believe I can tweak that down once I get the other issues solved.
  The carb job "seems" successful but everything else is all Sh#%%y.  When I got the bike it pumped out white smoke from the left side exhaust and made a clunky sound like it was running on 3 cylinders.  The clunky sound is greatly diminished, but the white smoke is the same.
  I started off with the intention of doing a compression test first thing.  That didn't happen because I didn't have the right adapter for my tester.  I wanted to get a manual but because I was so broke I tried to get a free one.  That went awry because I the cb1100F site didn't send a confirmation email so I didn't get to join or get the manual.  A comedy of errors so to speak. 
  I didn't want to just let the bike sit in my shop so I dug into the carbs thinking that getting those sorted might just fix it all.  I've gotten lucky like that in the past but not this time.
  The good news is I'm not discouraged, I have the correct adapter for my compression tester, I just ordered the Clymer Manual for the bike from an eBay vendor in Ohio so that will be here soon.  I'll come in tomorrow and do a compression test then go from there.

  So before I ask questions a couple of things....
I'm sure the carbs are good and clean, I put in new plugs and plug wires but those two things are all I've done.  The bike runs but idles poorly and like I mentioned before, choking it causes the idle to go to 2,800.

2 questions:  The carb manual calls the black knob a high idle adjuster.  Is that it's true function or is it the idle adjuster?  If it is indeed the HIGH idle adjuster where do I adjust the low idle? At the throttle cables?   I'm confused there.

In so far as the white smoke is concerned, am I correct in my assumption that large quantities of white smoke are indicative of a mis adjusted or burnt exhaust valve?




'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Magpie

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2012, 06:46:10 PM »
Pulling out the choke increases the idle speed because it moves the throttle butterflies. The black knob is an idle adjuster I believe, at least that's what I use it for. Once the bike is warm it will idle nicely and you can turn the idle down with that knob. I let it idle at about 1100 rpm. The clunking sound you hear may be clutch rattle which these are known for. There's some rubber snubber type things in the clutch that get old and hard and cause a rattle.
Hope this helps. Mine is my first DOHC and I'm learning on the fly too. Cliff.

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2012, 07:01:05 PM »
Thanks Cliff.   I'm afraid there's a burnt valve.  I'm going to start at the 3000 mile stuff and work thru it when I get my manual.
Scott
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2012, 05:19:47 AM »
  I got back on this yesterday.  I did the compression test.  Roughly 125 across all 4 cylinders. Pretty low, spec is 170 +/-14psi.  One comment on that, I warned the motor up but not as much as I probably should have.  My space is indoors without proper ventilation so asphyxiating myself was not on the agenda.  The good news is, the smoke seems to have diminished greatly.  I used a good bit of grease to pack my bowl gaskets in place and a nice coating of oil on all the o-rings and rubber diaphragms so I'm hoping that was the issue.
  I double checked spark, that checked out. 
  Then I decided to check out the timing.  That led to a world of pain.  None of the cover screws would budge, I hit them with blaster, heated them, and the impact just ripped them to shreds.  Out came the drill and the extractor.  Here's where I did something dumb.  I chose the #2 extractor.  I've always used the #3 on screws this size but for whatever reason I picked up the smaller one and chose the 7/64 drill bit.  Of course I broke the extractor off in the screw head.  I got the other two out with the #3 then rotated the cover enough to loosen it up and worked it out with a center punch.  Once that drama was over the timing was a piece of cake, it was retarded by 5 - 7 degrees.  I hope that and the inevitable valve adjustment do the trick.
  No work on the bikes today, I'm building control pendants for airline ground traffic control devices.  Variety, it's kinda spicy.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2012, 05:23:06 AM »
One thing I neglected to mention about this bike.  It has 42,xxx miles on the clock! 
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Magpie

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2012, 07:32:43 AM »
The bottom picture looks just like the ones that came out of mine. Cliff.

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2012, 12:48:38 AM »
  This is a pic from Saturday.  The numbers are all over the place.  I don't have the proper shim removal tool yet.  I ordered it yesterday from eBay.  I'm hoping I can dance the existing shims around and and get things within spec.
The beauty of this whole job is he's not expecting the bike back until September.  I would like to be done and delivered by June 15th.  I can see why shops don't want to touch these old bikes.  In my case it's not an issue but if a bike shop were doing this, it would be sitting taking up space and a lift.  Add to that justifying to a customer the huge number of hours spent at $70.00 plus an hour. 
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline kpier883

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2012, 07:04:13 AM »
I bet once you get the valve clearances right and set idle etc it will run great.  42k on a Honda isn't that much.  It might help to shoot some SeaFoam into the cylinders while you wait for the shim tool.  Maybe it would soak into the ring lands and loosen them up if they are nasty.  Can't hurt anything.  Of course, it would be good to turn the engine over several times without the spark plugs in after the soaking just in case there is still some liquid above the rings.  Wouldn't want to bend a rod, that would really suck.

Keep up the good work!

74 CB750
80 CBX
82 KZ1000 K2 (LTD)
57 1/2 ton chevy

Offline thrutheframe

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2012, 04:57:24 AM »
  Thanks for checking out my project kpier, Magpie has been a huge help.  I didn't quietly give up on this project.  I've been working at my regular gig for the last few days plus I took Tuesday and Wednesday off for some social activities.  While I was away this past weekend a few parts showed up at my door, OEM oil and air filters, a shifter shaft seal and the valve shim tool.  I also thought I should get a real micrometer.  I just couldn't bring myself to buy one from Harbor Freight or a used one from eBay.
  I'll be back in the shop this morning once I finish my coffee.  My goal for today is to double check all of the valve clearances and mic every shim.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2012, 12:05:37 PM »
Got all of the shims mic'd and the clearances rechecked.  I just got back from Western Hills Honda.  Of 16 valves, 6 were within spec.  I had to by 7 shims, 3 will get swapped.  I had to buy 1-270, 3-275's, and 3-280's.  I'm eating my lunch and I'll go back and drop the shims in the bike and recheck everything. 
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2012, 11:03:54 AM »
I've been pretty busy with life and work.  I haven't been posting any pics as I've been working on this bike because I've only had two hours at a time to work on it, that plus I had two frustrating set backs.  The oil filter bolt was literally round, I had to grind it off.  The threads in three of the eight holes for the valve cover bolts were stripped.  I think someone must have seriously over torqued them because a portion of the threads came out on the bolts.  I helicoiled all of the stripped threads and got it all back together today.  I'm going to be gone again for a few days but I should be able to button it all up next week.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline Magpie

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2012, 11:30:12 AM »
This is a fun thread to read, aside from the hassles you're having. I haven't had the valve cover off yet and it's interesting to watch you work. Cliff.

Offline thrutheframe

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Re: My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2012, 06:35:53 AM »
I'm back at it in my new shop space.  Nothing fancy but it's a lot larger.  15' X 58' as opposed to 15' X 15'.  The rent is higher in proportion to the space, I was paying $75.00, now it's $285.00 a month.  I have a huge window which will be great in the winter when I'm in the heat wrenching on my bikes, but for now it's the enemy.  The temperature in the shop was 102 whn I came in at 8:30 this morning, I have a huge drum fan and its bearable now but a swamp cooler is probably in my near future.  I'd rather buy something I can take with me than sink money into a compressor and accompanying equipment that I can't take with me when I leave here.
  I will prorbably get this bike fired up later today or tomorrow depending upon how my afternoon errands go.  I'n pretty optimistic despite the bumps I've encountered.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT

Offline thrutheframe

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My buddy asked me to get his bike running.
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2012, 08:42:53 AM »
May the gods of cycling bless this project!
 I have it all buttoned up, I'm just waiting on the battery to charge while I eat lunch and maybe do a few errands.
'74 cb 750 K4
'79 CB 650 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83981.0
'75 CB 360T
'90 RC31 Hawk GT