Topic: Novice with a non-running '77 CB550

[Chad]

First off, thanks to this forum. This has been a huge resource for me. I am new to working on bikes, which is why I'm here. I look forward to all the help I can get from you guys. So lets begin...

Yesterday, I bought a '77 CB550 on craigslist for $200 with hope of making it into a cafe. I plan on taking this slowly, step by step. My first plan of action is to get the motor running. When I went to pick up the bike, the carb was not attached and the cylinder head cover was just sitting, unscrewed. I was also handed a box of parts, none of them were labeled or anything and I'm not even sure that they all belong to this bike. (I will be having some "what the heck is this?" pics to post soon). 

This bike was in the process of being worked on and then the owner lost his mechanic for some reason. He said it was last running in September, which I partially believe because the registration just went out in February. It was laid down at some point, I'm assuming in September, when it stop running. The clutch lever was broken off and the side is scraped up.

My thoughts where to first get everything put back together so I can figure out what I'm missing. Then hopefully from there, I can start troubleshooting why it's not running. I will post more pics either tonight or tomorrow of the engine and everything I have to work with. I am a complete novice and any advice/help is greatly appreciated.

More detailed pics soon!

[LesterPiglet]

First thing go here
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=426.0
and download the appropriate manual.  Lot's of bodies willing to help on this forum with a wealth of knowledge.
Hope there isn't too much wrong with it.
Good luck.

[Chad]

Alright, I found and downloaded the repair manual, parts manual, and the owners manual. I spent the evening removing the engine. I know the engine is missing some parts and some existing parts are going to need replaced. Not sure exactly what parts yet though. I am pondering between going two different ways with this:

1) Learn all the ins and outs and spend the next few months learning and rebuilding.
2) Find a good mechanic to fix it for me.

I have absolutely no experience working on bikes. What do you guys think? Is this something that a newbie could handle? I don't mind taking the time and learning, but at the same time, I am anxious to get the thing running. Any other guys that have been in this position before?

Here are some pics with the motor removed:

[knowsnothing]

You will be fine don't worry.  Read everything atleast 3 times before you do it and if you have any questions, ask.

What i would do first is get that engine back together and in the bike.  Then clean the carbs (rite of passage) and see if you can get it fired up.  Once running, you can start troubleshooting any other problems.

[LesterPiglet]

Everyone has to start somewhere. With a manual and the help on this site you will soon be a pro.

You  will need to clean the rust off that camshaft with some fine grade paper.

[CycleRanger]

Howdy!  I'm shocked that you found a 550 in any condition for only $200 around these parts!

[Chad]

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm starting to feel more confident as I do more research. When I get off work today, I am planning on trying to clean up the engine a bit and get it put it back together. Then, depending on time, get it back in the frame and see what happens when I try and start it. The guy I bought it from still has to send me the key and I am hoping that it's not one of those things where I never hear from him again. Is there any trick to try and start this bike keyless without ordering a new ignition? The kick start lever was taken off so all I have is the start button. Any thoughts?

[dagersh]

Chad,

Even if you never hear from the guy, there is a numbered code on all the lock cylinders - hopefully, they all match...  Anyway, with that code, your friendly, neighborhood Honda Dealer can cut you a new key.

If the starter is not working, then source a new KS on Ebay or wherever.

Make sure your fuel system is clean by checking for rust in the tank.  Empty the float bowls and inspect to see the state of your carbs.  Use some fresh gas for your starting.  Also, make sure you have plenty of oil in the bike, and that it is somewhat clean.  If you kick over the bike with the kill switch in the off position you will send oil through the engine so the bike will not be without lubrication after sitting so long.

You can do everything you want to on this bike, it just takes time and patience.

Keep us informed and ask as many questions as you need to, no such thing as a dumb one!

Gersh

[Chad]

Here are my first set of questions:

In these two pics, is something supposed to be in these openings?



Anybody know what this connects to? It was unconnected when I got the bike.


Here are the carbs. They look good. The guy said that they were recently rebuilt so hopefully that's one less thing to worry about. I did clean the one at the of the pic.


I know there's a part missing here. From the parts manual it looks like the breather? Anyone know where I could find one?


Also, I checked the tank and it looks like it's in great shape. No rust or anything.

[knowsnothing]

The thing unconnected in the third picture is your rear brake switch.  It hooks on to a tab on your rear brake lever and causes the rear brake to light up when you push the brake.  There should be a little bracket that it sits in.

I have never worked on a 550 before, but I think you are missing 2 cylinder head covers (#4) and a breather cover (#2).   Best place to find them is by asking in the Wanted section of the boards or by going on ebay.  They may not be easy to find. 
http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f2-super-sport-550-four-1977-usa_model468/partslist/E++01.html

Lastly, those carbs look pretty clean, but the FIRST rule of fixing up a bike is NEVER believe a thing the previous owner says.  I would pull all the jets and clean them yourself.  Carbs can never be too clean and you will kick yourself if you get it all back together and realize the carbs are dirty.....sucks, been there done that.

[Chad]

Ok.... I found a breather cover on ebay and I will keep looking for those side covers. Oh and thanks for the advice on the carbs. I will go through and make sure they're all cleaned up.

Does anyone have any idea what these gaps are? I circled them in these pics so you can see what I'm talking about.

[harisuluv]

Second on what was said about the carbs. Never believe the PO. Heard they were just rebuilt too many times but after getting in there could tell they had not been rebuilt or even touched for years.

Those holes are normal. Down in there are just access to the stud bolts. No worries.

[Chad]

Ok good. Just wanted to make sure. I am planning on spending the weekend getting everything back together. Hoping by next week I will be ready to attempt to start the thing. One more question... I saw that the cylinder head cover gasket was torn. I know that I will need to replace it, but will it even be worth it to try and start it before I change the gasket? Will it start with a torn gasket? I'm planning on getting the whole gasket kit for this bike, but I have to convince my wife to let me spend another $100-$120 on it. 

I'm sure as I continue working on it this weekend I'll have more questions for you guys. Thanks for all the support so far!

[Tews19]

Welcome! Take your time and make sure you go over everything before you try to start her. You have lots of missing parts to the engine..



The two side parts you are missing are in my picture.I think they are called the tappet covers. i have the same bike but mine is a 78. Any more questions hit me up.. I take lots of pics for reference. Also, when you order the covers you are missing, remember to get new o rings that go with it.

[dave500]

itll be a good project,was the cover off the top of the engine?,is that rust on the actual cam lobes?and is there a sort of leaf spring that was in side the fuel bowls hooked over the main jets?itll be a good idea to drop the sump and at least get any sludge out of it,does the engine turn over by hand on the kicker?,try it with the spark plugs removed,drop a teaspoon or two of oil in the plug holes before you try it.
you have four studs under the breather without nuts,that means you have the good later cover with the locked rocker shafts,dont over do those nuts they dont pull the head down!if they are over torqued itll split the cover,,they are a tapered bolt like an old bicycle crank cotter pin and they stop the rocker shaft from rotating,,they dont need to be overly tightend.

[knowsnothing]

itll be a good project,was the cover off the top of the engine?,is that rust on the actual cam lobes?and is there a sort of leaf spring that was in side the fuel bowls hooked over the main jets?itll be a good idea to drop the sump and at least get any sludge out of it,does the engine turn over by hand on the kicker?,try it with the spark plugs removed,drop a teaspoon or two of oil in the plug holes before you try it.
you have four studs under the breather without nuts,that means you have the good later cover with the locked rocker shafts,dont over do those nuts they dont pull the head down!if they are over torqued itll split the cover,,they are a tapered bolt like an old bicycle crank cotter pin and they stop the rocker shaft from rotating,,they dont need to be overly tightend.

ps - Dave is one of 500/550 gurus.  I would listen to him 

[Chad]

itll be a good project,was the cover off the top of the engine

The cylinder head cover was off when I got the bike. It was sitting where it should be, but not screwed in and there was about a 1" open gap into the cylinder head.

is there a sort of leaf spring that was in side the fuel bowls hooked over the main jets

There are leaf springs for the main jets. I just had them off in the picture.

I am planning on cleaning the carbs more. All of the jets are clear and clean. What other parts of the carbs should I clean while I have it open?

And this bike does not have a kicker lever. I'm hoping the starter will work, if not, I'll order a new kicker lever.

And thanks to Tews19 for the info on the tappet covers. I found a pair on ebay, but one had a good size crack in it so I'm still looking for some to order.

Plans for this weekend:

• Clean out carbs (shouldn't be too much here)
• See what is and what isn't working in the electrical system. (mainly the starter)
• Get everything hooked back up (missing parts I ordered, fuel lines, etc.)
• Put in fresh oil, fuel

Anything I am missing here?

[Tews19]

Plus one on listening to Dave500... Also TwoTired is another guru..Both are more then willing to give the best advice

[kerryb]

I don't see any cam followers or rocker arms in the picture showing the valve stems...Have I forgotten what I'm looking at or do you have these ready to reinstall?

[LesterPiglet]

You have forgotten what you are looking at. All inside the top cover.....I hope.

[dave500]

you can download the manual here,go over the points setting and make sure they are set up correctly,itll save endless cranking and a flattend battery,dont lean on that large nut you find under the points cover to turn the engine youll break it,it drives two little flats and a tiny pin,really blow those carbs through every which way if you have an air compressor,remove all the jets and air screws before you do,new plugs and if all is well it should just fire straight up,seeing it has no kick starter,if you remove the alternator youll see a bolt you can lean on to turn the motor,thatll be a good option,the top cover was removed so something might be wrong?if you just hit the starter without checking  it might cause more damage?

[Chad]

So I have good news and bad news. This weekend went pretty good. All of the electrical works (including the starter). I tested out the starter a few times to see if the engine would turn over, and everything looked good. I got everything put back together and was ready to fire her up. As I was trying to start it, the engine was turning over and it sounded like it was firing up. (Or trying to at least.) I ran inside to grab something and then came back out to try and start it again. When I tried this time, the starter just made a click sound when I hit the starter button. The engine would not turn over any more.

Any idea what happened?

[Tews19]

Battery is dead. Even if you got a new one. Sometimes the cheper 30 dollar batteries have to be completely charged prior to using. When charged fully, the cranking seems to stress the battery making it lose power fast. At least I have this with my bike. Maybe I am wrong but that is my thought. Good to hear the good news though. Keep plugging away.

[Chad]

I forgot to mention this. I had it hooked up to a battery charger while I was trying to start it. It said the battery was at 88%. Could it just be a bad battery? Is there anything else it could be?

[Tews19]

With these bikes, the battery needs o be damn near 100%.. At least with my 550's