Topic: 1966 Honda Dream w/ No Title

[IAmCitizenMe]

So, my friend recently bought a '66 Dream. But there's no title. Here is the story told to him by the man he bought it from:

A man in California bought a couple Dreams and owned them for a long time. Then after a time of just sitting around, the man decided he wanted to get them running again. He took them to a shop to have work done. But while they were in the shop, the man went to prison. So instead of doing the proper legal work with the bikes, the shop just sold the bikes outright to another man. This second man thought it would be easy to get the titles for the bikes but only wanted to keep one of them. So he sold the second to my friend in Kansas City.

Now, he's having a hard time figuring out where to look (Missouri law, California law, etc.) for the proper legal path to get the bike titled. Does anyone have any ideas? He's moving in with me in New York this summer and he doesn't want to have to deal with the laws of three states when dealing with the laws of two is difficult enough.

[kirkn]

Your friend owns a parts bike.  Full stop.

  OR

Here's what your story means to the DVM of California, Missouri and New York:

"I bought BS BS BS  BS  BS BS  BS  blah blah blah  BS BS  lies  fraud  BS..."  and they will treat your friend accordingly.

[IAmCitizenMe]

Thanks for the advice.

[IAmCitizenMe]

I should add that I know what it sounds like. I just want to know if anyone has had any success in navigating situations like this.

[BeSeeingYou]

Do some research and find states that will title an old vehicle from a bill of sale.  Maine, Alabama, Arkansas may be a few but double check.  Have a friend in any of the states you find?  Have them "buy" the bike, title it and then "sell" it back.  Might take a few months but with a clean state registration it should be easy to transfer it to your state.  Just thinking outside the box here I have not tried this.

[MoMo]

If the name of the original owner is known, you can attempt to contact him to get a duplicate title.  I got around a similar situation by getting a notarized bill of sale and using ITS title service, but that was a hassle and expensive...Larry

what srust58 posted is similar to what ITS does

[IAmCitizenMe]

Why is it so difficult to re-title a vehicle? It seems that a state should be able to look up the vin#, declare it owner-less, and grant a title to the new owner with sales tax and registration fees.

[MoMo]

Why is it so difficult to re-title a vehicle? It seems that a state should be able to look up the vin#, declare it owner-less, and grant a title to the new owner with sales tax and registration fees.

You just put common sense and the government in the same sentence ...Larry

[grcamna2]

Do some research and find states that will title an old vehicle from a bill of sale.  Maine, Alabama, Arkansas may be a few but double check.  Have a friend in any of the states you find?  Have them "buy" the bike, title it and then "sell" it back.  Might take a few months but with a clean state registration it should be easy to transfer it to your state.  Just thinking outside the box here I have not tried this.

I have a friend who has residences in 2 states: NJ. & VT. I "sold" my motorcycle to him & he took the papers in to the VT. motor vehicle folks and they registered the bike in "his" name. He is now in the process of "selling" the bike back to me and I'll be able to just go to my Very Tough motor vehicle dept. here in PA. and register "my" bike. I bought it w/o a title and this good dude helped me    ! it sure helps to have a friend who lives in a lenient state...unlike PA.

[Stev-o]

It's not impossible, just remember it is their "game". Learn the rules and follow them and you can getva title.
Call your local DMV and ask...

[MoMo]

Do some research and find states that will title an old vehicle from a bill of sale.  Maine, Alabama, Arkansas may be a few but double check.  Have a friend in any of the states you find?  Have them "buy" the bike, title it and then "sell" it back.  Might take a few months but with a clean state registration it should be easy to transfer it to your state.  Just thinking outside the box here I have not tried this.

I have a friend who has residences in 2 states: NJ. & VT. I "sold" my motorcycle to him & he took the papers in to the VT. motor vehicle folks and they registered the bike in "his" name. He is now in the process of "selling" the bike back to me and I'll be able to just go to my Very Tough motor vehicle dept. here in PA. and register "my" bike. I bought it w/o a title and this good dude helped me    ! it sure helps to have a friend who lives in a lenient state...unlike PA.

Bill, good friend to have ...Larry

[kirkn]

Why is it so difficult to re-title a vehicle? It seems that a state should be able to look up the vin#, declare it owner-less, and grant a title to the new owner with sales tax and registration fees.

But it is NOT owner-less.  As far as the state is concerned, there IS an owner, and he's sitting in prison.  Anything that happened after that, if the paper trail wasn't completed, as far as the STATE is concerned, DIDN'T HAPPEN!

So, why should California, Missouri or NY take some flaky story and say "Sure, we'll go ahead and give the bike officially to you" just because your friend SAYS that's what happened?  For all the state knows, it's stolen, and the rightful owner (in prison) doesn't even KNOW it's been stolen. 

Just sayin'...

[grcamna2]

Do some research and find states that will title an old vehicle from a bill of sale.  Maine, Alabama, Arkansas may be a few but double check.  Have a friend in any of the states you find?  Have them "buy" the bike, title it and then "sell" it back.  Might take a few months but with a clean state registration it should be easy to transfer it to your state.  Just thinking outside the box here I have not tried this.

I have a friend who has residences in 2 states: NJ. & VT. I "sold" my motorcycle to him & he took the papers in to the VT. motor vehicle folks and they registered the bike in "his" name. He is now in the process of "selling" the bike back to me and I'll be able to just go to my Very Tough motor vehicle dept. here in PA. and register "my" bike. I bought it w/o a title and this good dude helped me    ! it sure helps to have a friend who lives in a lenient state...unlike PA.

Bill, good friend to have ...Larry

I was surprised he offered me the help when I explained my predicament to him...he's a new forum member  .

[Artf0rm]

Protip:

Do not buy the property of people in prison..  They make bad decisions and now you have something they think is theirs. 

The fact is that unless the bike shop got a abandonment title then they had no right to sell your fiend a bike in the first place.  If not then your friend actually doesn't own the bike at all.  With that said if you were pressed into the legality of the purchase most states have something called buyers right.  Buyers rights apply to a situation where a buyer had a decent reason to make the assumption of the legality of the sales of property.  This is usually when someone presents a false title.  Bill of sale transactions in this state (NC) do not apply. 

I purchased a bike here in North Carolina without a title and before purchasing the bike I had the DMV run the VIN.  It came back clear but it was still a gamble.  My understanding is that in most states the DMV has a department that does title investigation.  In NC titles prior to 1981 are on micro phish and they employe someone who's job it is to sift through those records looking for your old bikes last owner.       

[Old Scrambler]

When or IF you try to get a title (Michigan is a good place to have a freind) use the frame number. It is located below the left side cover near or beneath the swingarm. This will allow you to change the motor without another titlle event.

[grcamna2]

When or IF you try to get a title (Michigan is a good place to have a freind) use the frame number. It is located below the left side cover near or beneath the swingarm. This will allow you to change the motor without another titlle event.

+1 

[iya0yas]

Perhaps the dealership that sold the bike to your friend can claim a 'mechanic's lein' whereby the 'jailbird' failed to pay for the 'service' performed as well as applicable storage fees?  Depending on your state laws, I believe this dealer would need to apply for a duplicate title then simply re-assign it to your friend....  hope this helps.

[jamesb]

is your friend on the mo side or ks side of kc if it's the Kansas side it's easier than you think I've heard it's easy on the mo side. here's how I've done it in the past ks side if it's not over 35 yrs which it is file a storage lien on it if it's over 35 yrs just get a antique title for it. mo side when you get it antiqued i guess your only allowed so many miles a year. ks side they don't care.

[lucky]

California DMV does not keep records after 10 years.

[grcamna2]

IAmCitizenMe,
     How's the title search thing going for you're friend? was he able to reach the right people to begin the process of registering his Dream ?

[IAmCitizenMe]

Hey, all. Thanks for all the advice. He's looking in to all the suggestions. He's also in the process of quitting his job, finding a new one in New York, and moving so his plate is full. But I will absolutely post any developments as well as  any dead ends. He might try and sell it to a friend on the Kansas side of the city and then buy it back from them. I'll let you all know. Thanks again!

Chris

[grcamna2]

Hey, all. Thanks for all the advice. He's looking in to all the suggestions. He's also in the process of quitting his job, finding a new one in New York, and moving so his plate is full. But I will absolutely post any developments as well as  any dead ends. He might try and sell it to a friend on the Kansas side of the city and then buy it back from them. I'll let you all know. Thanks again!

Chris

Chris,
     That seems like a good thing..to sell it to his friend like that,it worked for me !

[IAmCitizenMe]

I should get a law degree, then open my own shop and specialize in title law. Badass Law Inc.

[Elan]

do you have a previous registration? In RI, you just need a previous registration and a bill of sale.  I bought an old honda of questionable origin once and had no problems in RI.

[IAmCitizenMe]

I don't think he does. But maybe the previous owner does. I'll as him.

[IAmCitizenMe]

Does anyone know where the VIN is located on the frame? We're worried it was removed.

[Greggo]

Does anyone know where the VIN is located on the frame? We're worried it was removed.

Should be on the steering neck, and there's another one on my 150 Dream that's on the left side, just under or below the side cover.