Author Topic: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start  (Read 3415 times)

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kevito

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74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« on: May 31, 2006, 10:40:35 PM »
I’m desperately seeking some sort of assistance to help get my 74 CB350F1 back on the road. I’ll give you a bit of the history of why the bike isn’t on the road: you can skip the next paragraph or two if you want to get to the technical details. 

I bought the bike two years ago after I saw it collecting dust out in someone’s back yard. It had 63000 miles on it and didn’t run at all. I took her home, fixed her up and got her on the road. It took four months, but she ran alright- except for the burning lots of oil. Anyways, I was out riding her this year around March when my chain ceased and sheered all the teeth off the rear sprocket, the bolts holding the sprocket on and seriously damaged the rear tyre rim. I don’t know why I didn’t crash horribly, as it happened when I was making a left hand turn at 40km/hr. Anyhow, I decided I would walk it 15 blocks uphill to my friends house, come back the next day and fix the chain, sprocket and anything else that was damaged.

The next day I got a phone call from my friend urging me to come over as quickly as possible. I go to get the bike but discover, upon arriving, that his next door neighbour had ran it over with her van. After a week of negotiation a settlement was arranged and the bike was brought back home. I checked the frame, shocks, etc… and everything seemed to be alright. The bike still ran, but the chain was busted. I also happened to get a hold of a friend who had another old CB350F1 that had been close to a burning barn. blinkers were a bit melted and the some parts of the bike were covered in tar. I decided I could see if the motor worked and try to do a motor swap, since I hate burning oil. The bike fired up a few hours after it was delivered (after cleaning it up) and ran quite nicely. So I decided to swap the motor over since it had 8000 miles, only.

Now the motor is sitting in my bike, and I did a test fireup with the exhausts removed. She fired up with a little backfiring, but after a while became very smooth. The next day I went and connected up the exhausts, rear brake system, and replaced the chain, sprocket, bearings, and rim. I also replaced the oil pan gasket and the clutch housing gasket.

Now the bike doesn’t want to fire up at all. The electronic starter turns the motor over fine as does the kickstart, but it doesn’t start.

There is horrible backfiring out of one of the two left cylinders (4-2 exhaust). It is extremely loud and followed by white smoke puffing out of left exhaust. Sometimes it flings little pieces of carbon well across the garage. Sometimes I see purple flames shooting back out of the intake manifold, with note that I have seen flames come out the  two middle carburetor intakes at the same time (I don’t think they are suppose to have that firing order).

Here are a list of things I’ve done and checked, in order to make it easier for someone to help me:

I have checked the points/capacitor in the timing housing. The ignition timing is set in the middle for each fine adjustment, to be conservative. I am quite sure the backfiring is not due to any miss fine adjustment to the ignition timing. I have checked with a screw driver with the coils powered up to see if they spark when the points are closed. They do spark quite brightly and intensely showing that the points are doing their job. They are also giving me >12V reading between the point contacts and the ground. I have changed the points and the capacitors(?) to ones known to work but it doesn’t seem to make a difference. I might have installed the points incorrectly so if someone can tell me if there’s some special alignment the crank has to have when installing the points?

I have changed both ignition coils to two different, known to work coils. It doesn’t seem to make a difference. I have also checked the coil to points wire for continuity. The wire was not giving continuity and I replaced it with one that does. It didn’t fix the problem.

The spark plugs are visibly in good shape and they are fairly new (<3000 miles). There seems to be a strong inconsistency with the spark intensity. I have checked just the wires for spark, and all the wires do spark, but they do not always spark. If I test one, it sometimes doesn’t spark, but a few minutes later it will be sparking. I don’t know what this means.

I’ve also checked the carbs but I don’t feel that they are the problem. If I fiddle with the choke while the bike is starting up, sometimes it will backfire, but only on the one side. The engine was running before.

Can anyone suggest anything?  This bike has been two years of work ;)

Anything is appreciated.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 11:36:11 PM by kevito »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 12:13:06 AM »
I've heard that running these engines without headers on the ports, risks warping the exhaust valves as cold air rushes into the ports onto the hot valves.

Might want to do a compression check to verify mechanical cylinder integrity.

Otherwise, check for fuel contamination.  Drain and catch the carb bowl contents.  Any chunky bits are a bad sign.  If found, track down the source and correct, then flush the carbs and clean the likely plugged slow jets.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline 750goes

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 12:20:49 AM »
Sounds like the timing is off somewhere, and /or bad electrical connections, with that backfiring, but that could also be a fuel related problem as TT stated.

You may like to check the FAQ section for any timing procedures for the bike??

kevito

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 01:17:21 AM »
I've heard that running these engines without headers on the ports, risks warping the exhaust valves as cold air rushes into the ports onto the hot valves.

Might want to do a compression check to verify mechanical cylinder integrity.

Otherwise, check for fuel contamination.  Drain and catch the carb bowl contents.  Any chunky bits are a bad sign.  If found, track down the source and correct, then flush the carbs and clean the likely plugged slow jets.

Cheers,

It was run without the headers for only few minutes at very low rpm. I will check compression, but it seems very very high as it turns over with the kickstart and has a good amount of pressure coming out the exhaust.
The fuel is brand new, and the carbs have been rebuilt. The carbs were working on another CB350 days ago, so I know they are working well. The fuel pettock is clear of debris, too.

kevito

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 01:21:10 AM »
Sounds like the timing is off somewhere, and /or bad electrical connections, with that backfiring, but that could also be a fuel related problem as TT stated.

You may like to check the FAQ section for any timing procedures for the bike??


I just read another post about firing orders, and that the fact that the two middle cylinders fired at the same time is a sign that something may be off with the timing. I'll read the FAQ again in more detail.


Thanks again for the quick replies. I'll let you know how things go in the next few days.

Offline MRieck

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 05:58:43 AM »
I'd say ignition timing....probably to advanced which won't light the cylinder until it is loaded with fuel which results in a backfire.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline 78_SaltLick

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 09:09:33 AM »
Good Lord that bike has had a hard life.....
Gold sparkle is the place you outta be.

Offline hcritz

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 09:23:32 AM »
Hello Kevito...
Not sure what has been done between the time it ran last...But it does sound like timing. Make sure that the points are connected to the correct coils...If so, that would throw everthing out 180 degrees and causes some nasty backfires! That could happen pretty easily.

Offline oldfart

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2006, 09:25:50 PM »
Did you maybe pinch the ignition leads with the oil pan or other engine cover?   :)
Mike Nixon
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Offline MRieck

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2006, 07:10:23 AM »
Hello Kevito...
Not sure what has been done between the time it ran last...But it does sound like timing. Make sure that the points are connected to the correct coils...If so, that would throw everthing out 180 degrees and causes some nasty backfires! That could happen pretty easily.

An excellent suggestion....I've seen it happen and have done it myself.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

kevito

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Re: 74 CB350F1 Horrible Backfire / Won't start
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2006, 01:52:45 PM »
I fixed the problem! Turns out that all I needed to do was replace the spark plugs. I got some new ones for 10$ and threw 'em in. Now the bike works fine. I think it seemed like it was firing the wrong cylinders because of pressure lines between the four carbs. It must of not of fired for many cycles, then ignited, backfired, and the backfire traveled up the intake. Then the adjacent carb would also fire.

I put in the new plugs and now she runs great. I feel retarded. Thanks for all your help!