Author Topic: 1975 CB 550 - battery not being recharged! (Read 4170 times)

Jaydem03 · « **on:** March 20, 2012, 06:04:45 PM »

Hello all!

Recently, I noticed that my bike's charging system is not recharging my battery. Actually, I believe its a hit and miss. Because sometimes after riding I can start the bike right up, and then sometime I hit the start button and barely cranks. Another thing I noticed is the light gets brighter when applying throttle! What should I check first, and how do I do it. I am not a big electrical guy but I am pretty good mechanically. Ive read some posts but need details on how to use voltage meter etc (settings)

If anyone can help..thanks! It is greatly appreciated!

singedebile · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:45:49 PM »

you should get a clymer manual for your bike, it describes ways of testing the stator, rectifier etc... there is also a complete shop manual for download on this site that describes the same things, you'll need a voltmeter, start there and report back

cameron · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2012, 07:36:50 AM »

plus search. This issue is WELL covered.

flybox1 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:23:23 AM »

have you done anything to maintain/improve your electricals?
+1 on the clymer/shop manual.
sounds like you've got a tired battery.
3 voltage tests for your battery. bike off. bike at idle. bike at ~3000+rpm.
let us know what readings you get.

Jaydem03 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:01:23 AM »

well to be honest Ive done a lot of research. problem is (dont laugh) i am not good with a voltage tester and its settings. About the only thing I know how to check it the actual voltage. I started reading the manual ( i have 2 different ones) and once they start talking about using the voltage meter and a ammeter I get lost. Like I said I am not good with electrics, so I was wondering if anyone can offer step-by step instructions.

thanks in advance!

Fritz · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:53:00 AM »

Well, it's easy, even if you have no clue about electrics:

1. Get yourself a decent multimeter like http://www.harborfreight.com/ac-dc-digital-multimeter-37772.html
2. While at it, buy an impact driver: e.g. http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-screwdriver-set-with-case-37530.html
2. take off the left engine cover (remove gear shifter first), using the impact driver
3. Unplug your alternator and the field coil from the wire loom: Three yellow wires, white and green wire
4. Switch you multimeter to Ohms (Ω), lowest setting (200)
5. Hold together the two test leads. Your meter should read something between 0.01 and 0.5 Ohms. Write down the value
6. Hold the black test lead on the green wire and the red test lead on the white
7. Write down the reading and subtract the value you've written down in step 5. Result should be between 4.4 and 5.4 Ohms
8. Hold the black lead to any of the yellow wires and then red to one of the two other yellows. Write down the value.
9. Move the red test lead to the third yellow wire. Write down the value
10. Now leave the red where it was in step 9 and move the black to the second yellow wire. Write down the value.
11. All three values of steps 8-10 should read between 0.31 and 0.39 Ohms (value of step 5 subtracted)
12. Use your workshop manual to identify the rectifier. Unplug it and use the diode function (valve symbol next to the lowest Ohm setting)
13. Hold the black lead to the yellow/white wire and use the red test lead to measure all three yellow wires. Write down the values
14. Hold the red lead to the green wire and measure all three yellow wires with the black lead. Write down the values.
The last six values should read something like 0.5 and 0.8 (forward voltage)
Try to switch the red lead and the black lead in steps 13 and 14 if you do not get the desired reading. Maybe I mixed polarity here.
15. Now, put everything together and use the workshop manual to locate the regulator. Do not unplug it
16. Turn on ingition (battery charged) but don't start the engine, switch multimeter to 20 Volts DC (dash and a dotted line symbol)
17. Hold the black test lead against the green wire and the red lead against the black wire of the regulator. Write down the value
18. Now hold the red lead against the white wire (leave the black on the green). Write down the value.
The last two values should read just above 12V

Let us know your results

wormser · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2012, 05:36:31 PM »

Sounds like your connections may be corroded or your ground could be loose or dirty. Always check your ground first tighten and clean. If your light gets brighter when the rpms increase your stator is good. Take your battery by a shop if you don't have a volt meter or you don't want to hassle with it. Checking your rectifier and regulator might be a good idea since you're diving into the charging system. I did all this recently for the first time and I just followed the clymer manual and used others input. Turned out my rectifier was crap and after a few hours my bike would die because the battery was dead. You can do it brother it just takes a little time...AC

Jaydem03 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2012, 08:10:18 AM »

Guys thanks for all the help and encouragement...I will try to tackle it this weekend!

luap · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:59:36 PM »

Fritz
what kind of number wou you get running a single state regulator rectifer, an would you sub the yellow/white wire for the solid white in step 13 an in step 18 would you still get a 12v reading using the single state?

Fritz · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:44:18 PM »

Hi Luap,

first of all, excuse my poor English...

What do you mean with "single state regulator rectifier"? A single unit containing both the rectifier and the regulator? A single phase rectifier? A solid state regulator?

Even if you have a unit that combines the rectifier and regulator, you should understand, that these are two different devices, serving different purposes.

The original rectifier has three yellow, a white/yellow and a green wire. They are not connected directly to the regulator...

The regulator has a black, green and white wire. Swapping wires in the tests I wrote down in my previous post, does not make any sense.

The rectifier should be tested while being disconnected. The regulator should be tested connected and with a fully charged battery.

Your problem is that Honda used a certain color coding that might not match the one on your rectifier/regulator unit: white: alternator field coil +, green: ground, black: ignition +12V, yellow: alternator AC output, yellow/white: +12V output of rectifier.

That's the reason, why I wouldn't buy a bike with a 'custom wire loom'.

72500john · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2012, 06:02:34 PM »

this guy has some neat products if you need them and a good diagnostics page.
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/SOHCfours.html
this link for wiring i find invaluable.you can delete the systems you want to only look at the ones you need.
http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/wiring.html
as said check for dirty connections first!

KC3 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2012, 06:04:37 PM »

I have a 76 cb550 and had the same issue for years...(not that my solution is exactly what you need) but what I did to fix mine was replace the regulator and rectifier with a new solid state one from dime city cycles http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-electronics-parts-honda-cb350f-cb400f-cb500-cb550-cb750-rectifier-864218.html. It was pretty simple to replace, and it is charged up every time now! If you need step by step instructions let me know.

Good luck and keep us posted on any progress.

Fritz · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:07:19 AM »

Quote from: KC3 on March 22, 2012, 06:04:37 PM

what I did to fix mine was replace the regulator and rectifier with a new solid state one from dime city cycles

I had charging problems too, when I got my 550. I found out that the original regular was badly misadjusted. Instead of rebuilding it, I bought the same solid state one and used the time that I saved for doing other important things. The nice thing about this solid state rec/reg is that it has the original wire colors: Made a bracket, plugged it in and forgot about it.

But before throwing $100 at it, I ruled out all other possible reasons for my charging problems: Switches, wires, connectors, ground to frame, alternator coils, battery.

dave500 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:24:33 AM »

i dont know whether these are available outside of australia,,its a bosch electronic regulator,,these were the replacement for a few cars here that used the bosch 35 amp alternator with an external tin box mechanical regulator,these are $35 here,ive had one on my bike for years.too easy.

thrutheframe · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2012, 06:08:46 AM »

Jakub? Is this the same guy posting about his 550 on the Cincinnati Cafe Racer Group page? If so you can PM me here to get my number and directions to my shop. We can use Fritz's instructions above to diagnose the problem. I'm available all afternoon that day.

KC3 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2012, 06:32:23 AM »

Quote from: Fritz on March 23, 2012, 03:07:19 AM

Quote from: KC3 on March 22, 2012, 06:04:37 PM
what I did to fix mine was replace the regulator and rectifier with a new solid state one from dime city cycles

I had charging problems too, when I got my 550. I found out that the original regular was badly misadjusted. Instead of rebuilding it, I bought the same solid state one and used the time that I saved for doing other important things. The nice thing about this solid state rec/reg is that it has the original wire colors: Made a bracket, plugged it in and forgot about it.

But before throwing $100 at it, I ruled out all other possible reasons for my charging problems: Switches, wires, connectors, ground to frame, alternator coils, battery.

+1 on that!! Mine was badly misadjusted as well. I have nothing better to do, so I adjusted it and got it to work as well as it would but unfortunately it was never good enough.

Definitely make sure it is the cause of the problem first before replacing it! In fact, try everything else first. I also changed out my fuse box to an ATC blade style box. The old filament style fuses can cause headaches when the contacts become at all corroded. Hondaman makes one for ~$50 but don't tell anyone I said this..but you can get one on ebay for a lot cheaper if you like soldering and heat shinking wires together...otherwise Hondaman's is great and plugs right in where the old one did.

Cheers, and good luck!

luap · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2012, 05:57:56 PM »

fritz
sorry, solid state, integrated regulator/rectifier, the combined unit 3y's (black ignition) white (red 12vpos)( green ground)
I was getting the same numbers you listed in the first couple steps but then lost it when yellow/white wire came into play,
I dont have a problem just wanted to test it since you wrote a good break down, thanks

singedebile · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2012, 06:08:47 PM »

in step 11 where you test between the yellow wires I get 1.2 to 1.4 for every combination then minus .5 resistance on the meter leaves me pretty far off? does this mean I need a new stator?

Spanner 1 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2012, 06:18:45 PM »

Dave always keeps his yard mowed nicely, seen it in lots of bike parts photos

... O.K., back to the scheduled topic....

dave500 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2012, 12:11:17 AM »

i want to concrete it but my wife wont let me,that rockery garden is going at least,the rest of the property is trees i have a couple of acres here,suitable for extreme trials riding!now back to the sceduled topic.

singedebile · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2012, 11:20:26 AM »

hey, can someone confirm my stator is bad, as I know it's pretty rare for them to go

strynboen · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2012, 12:02:51 PM »

if you gets strange resultats..test the vires..hvere they get in the stator..they can be burned /bad konneked..you can easy put nev vireing on the stator
or do the test direkt on the stator kut the viring
all 3 fases are konnekted together in the inside..and taken aut vith the 3 yellow vires..it are 3 vindings vith kommon point,,so they must have same ohm between them
the elektro magenet are just one vinding...sorry for my danish viking english

dave500 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2012, 01:55:46 PM »

with your meter,check there is zero continuity to the steel ring or a good earth with each yellow wire one by one,,then check continuity between each wire,it should be point .35 ohm,the field winding also should have zero to its body and 4.9 ohms between its two wires.

touch your meter two probes together with it set on ohms,,what does it read?this should be taken into account with your test,,it wont be much though.

Fritz · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2012, 02:11:50 PM »

Quote from: singedebile on March 23, 2012, 06:08:47 PM

in step 11 where you test between the yellow wires I get 1.2 to 1.4 for every combination then minus .5 resistance on the meter leaves me pretty far off? does this mean I need a new stator?

No, I think, it's not likely that you will get readings so close for each of the three coils if the stator was bad. My guess is that your multimeter has difficulties to show accurate numbers for such small values.

singedebile · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2012, 03:22:39 PM »

yeah im getting .5 between the two probes, then when I test between each yellow wire I get 1.0 to 1.1 and no continuity between each yellow and the ground wire. and between ground and white 4.6

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Author Topic: 1975 CB 550 - battery not being recharged! (Read 4170 times)

72500john