Author Topic: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**  (Read 21963 times)

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Offline westondc

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2012, 10:29:52 pm »
Awesome!!!
B.O.X.N.I.F.E. Hospital fund https://www.everribbon.com/ribbon/view/8352
Rider no. 115 on the 2012 SOHC/4 Honda World Tour
Rider no. 274 on the 2011 SOHC/4 Honda World Tour
1972 Honda CB500k1
1971 Honda CB350k3
the project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64499.0
Trip/Project Blog http://easterntowestern.blogspot.com/
Quote
just be a vagabond, living out of a backpack on a little Honda, cruisin all over the damn place....
"As your attorney, I advise you to buy a motorcycle. How else can we cover a thing like this righteously?"

Offline bluezboy

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2012, 07:21:46 am »
 Jerry, I feel the same way about you, it was great meeting you last night. And I really appreciate how much Nancy and Greg welcomed me into their home, it's not everyday I meet someone for the first time and they give me a hug at the door! I could have visited with you guys all night, except for my job obligation. My wife was not upset either about me coming home late either, which was refreshing. I wish I could be there this weekend, who knows, I may hop in the car and come down Sunday morning. I will start planning the ride for the BRP next year, have a fun time and let's keep in touch, Vern

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2012, 04:31:17 am »
Picked up GZ 2.0 in Valdosta this weekend at SGMP, what a blast!

524 relay miles
262 GZ miles

Detailed ride/event report to follow!
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                           http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/wiring750K1.html
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2012, 08:04:34 am »
Together again if only briefly

As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Online ofreen

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2012, 04:26:16 pm »
Thanks Jerry, that photo made me laugh a little.  Those little toys were the catalyst for some good rides and memories.
Greg
'75 CB750F


“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”
― Mark Twain

Offline coke

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2012, 06:23:56 pm »
glad you posted that Jerry.  I forgot to take a picture of the GZs together and my wife just asked about picture of the two and I said.. CRAP i forgot to get a pic .. I said.... maybe someone else did.. whew.. you came through for me.. Thanks.. :)
1974 Honda CB350F
1976 Honda CB750F
1977 Honda CB750 F2 SuperSport
2009 H/D VRSCAW VRod
2011 H/D Road Glide Ultra
2007 Kawi 650r Ninja
1999 HD 883 Sportster (bought back from youngest son)
1999 Kawi 1500 Nomad (given to oldest son)

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2012, 07:37:40 pm »
I had a stowaway on board... GZ 3.0 insisted on getting a head start on next year! Can you say "Hat Trick"?



Jerry, the triplets, and myself with Jim's turbo'ed 750!
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                           http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/wiring750K1.html
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2012, 07:51:24 pm »
Triplets? Who knew?!   Great shot and that 750 looks awesome.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #83 on: November 13, 2012, 10:08:26 am »
Yeah, well you will never know what Wilbur and I have had up our sleeves. There's always an undisclosed contingency plan because you never know what might happen  ;)
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #84 on: November 13, 2012, 08:18:08 pm »
My venture started after lunch on Friday. I only planned to work till mid-morning but could not get away until after lunch. A four hour ride put me at the hotel in Valdosta about 5:00 P.M.

GZ 3.0 would not be denied and insisted on tagging along!



So we each have nearly 600 miles for the 2013 relay!

Called JimF from the hotel to find out the crew was still at the track. 5:30 P.M. and Sam had not even run any time trials! So off to the track I went to find Bill and Jim still fussing with the line lock on Sam's bike.






 Bill's "Calendar Girl" was refusing to fire on all cylinders and had already been retired for the weekend.




 The line lock on Sam's bike was finally shelved and the crew resigned to running without it. Sam finally got to make a trial run under the lights and then packed it in for the night.




Back at the hotel by 10:30 and we were off for a late meal and some barley soda to wash it down. Bikes and racing dominated the conversation.
Up early on Saturday, first call for Sam was 8:00 A.M. so we were in for a full day. Sam got his first Valdosta win that morning which really ramped up the crew. The second round win came just before lunch... we're riding high now!

http://youtu.be/hY4uCrBQZAs

Bill had brought his leathers and was not going to be denied the opportunity to race, so ideas began to form about preparing project "Purple Rain" (sounds appropriate, I don't recall whether Bill has named this one yet or not) for racing the following day.



Quite ambitious seeing as how it had just been purchased that very day...



Good thing Bill and John had done such a good job of preparing "SamAuto" for racing since it might have been difficult to get much done with people stopping by the pits every 10 or 15 minutes to reminisce about their own experiences with their old Hondas. Before the weekend was over I think just about everyone there checked in with our pits!




The stars and planets were aligned in such a manner that we got to spend a good part of Saturday talking shop with both Ken and Todd from CycleX

                          Mike R., Ken (Cycle X), and Bill B.
Bill and Kenny trying to figure out the correct direction to go down the track. ;D


Ken brought along a super trick CB750 SOHC cylinder head that they are developing for their drag bike. Mike and Bill were inspecting this mechanical eye candy VERY closely. I think I could actually see flash rust forming on the steely bits due to the spike in humidity! Sorry, no picts (top secret stuff) but the O.D. of the outer valve spring was about the same as the stock INNER spring. Custom (larger) intake connectors welded in place, some over-the-top port massaging, and a billet cylinder block to go with it! Monster valves machined deep into the head, enlarged combustion chamber, I think he mentioned 74mm(?) bore and another 2mm stroke. They are definitely into their 750's!


AND if that wasn't enough... Pat and Big Jay from A.P.E. happened by...



What a treat talking with Jay. His declaration that his business was built on these old Hondas is evidenced by his insistence on continuing to produce parts for these old bikes. He really enjoys what he's doing and it shows. He talked at length about his involvement with RC (Sr) back in the day, about the lifecycle of some of the different product lines, how they came about, how some fell out of favor, how they were resurrected,  as well about current projects and ideas. I could listen to him go on for hours...

Also got to meet Tracy from Montgomery Motorsports, purveyors of carbon fiber bling: http://www.montgomerymotorsports.net/ . Tracy just scored an early SOHC 750 and has started making carbon fiber bits! Fender, points cover, clutch cover, and more to come. I don't know if they have the CB750 items posted on their site yet, they're that new!


Saturday afternoon was spent hurrying up to wait. Sam's third (and final) run of the day would not come until after dark. This gave me plenty of time to browse the pits:





And we thought our bikes were old...




The lady racers were well represented:





After Sam's third round loss we were packed up and off for an early dinner and favorite spirits by 9:30 P.M. Sunday starts all over again with a clean slate AND we got to sleep in, first call was for 8:30 A.M.






There was quite the field on Sunday:












And more racing!






Got to see both Bill (on Purple Rain) and Sam both take their first round wins on Sunday and then it was time for myself and the Atlanta/Colorado/Massachusetts contingents to pack it up. If you don't think we had an absolute blast, then you don't know Jack...



One final shot of Jerry, the triplets, and me before parting ways.



 GZ 1.0 off to retire in Colorado Springs with Jerry, GZ 2.0 and 3.0 off to Sunny Florida. During the uneventful ride ride home, I happened to see the coolest tow vehicle during a fuel stop...



Now I want to build my own dragbike...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 04:19:11 am by madmtnmotors »
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
                                           http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                           http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/wiring750K1.html
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline scottly

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #85 on: November 13, 2012, 09:17:23 pm »
Great report, Wilbur! 8)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2012, 05:30:07 am »
Excellent write up, thanks for sharing. 
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #87 on: November 14, 2012, 05:43:52 am »
Yeah Wilbur,great coverage and a pleasure meeting you.Thanks again for all the help.You get with me,Frank(Dragracer),we'll help,lots of parts,not that hard,esp ET /Bracket racing! C[mon man!! Bill
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
BentON Racing Facebook
Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline bwaller

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #88 on: November 14, 2012, 07:01:40 am »
Thanks for the update Wilbur.

I have to agree with your comment about being prepared. It is for certain there will be interest in the pit, and the support is very appreciated, but unless your ducks are in a row the distraction of talking to folks makes for unnecessary tension.

Often issues arise that need to solved at the track, but I see so many guys though that show up to race events with stuff torn apart, working through the night trying to get things ready to race. Man I don't get it!

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #89 on: November 14, 2012, 01:11:02 pm »
Fantastic write up Wilbur, any jurno would be pleased to say, "I wrote that"  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Bluto

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2012, 06:34:02 pm »
Good job Wilbur!!!

Can't wait for the details on 2013.

Bill
76 550K bought brand new...mothballed for 30 years... and still running great
81 XR 80
82 XR 200

Offline westondc

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2012, 10:13:05 am »
Hey all, I never got around to doing a write-up about our SOHC4 2012 trip through the Rockies this year. However, a video is better than words right? :D This video contains some clips of us riding Trail Ridge Road after handing off Godzilla to the Colorado crew... it was a long and boring trip back to Eastern Nebraska after that.

Rocky Mountain ride on a Honda CB500/Triumph Bonneville
B.O.X.N.I.F.E. Hospital fund https://www.everribbon.com/ribbon/view/8352
Rider no. 115 on the 2012 SOHC/4 Honda World Tour
Rider no. 274 on the 2011 SOHC/4 Honda World Tour
1972 Honda CB500k1
1971 Honda CB350k3
the project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64499.0
Trip/Project Blog http://easterntowestern.blogspot.com/
Quote
just be a vagabond, living out of a backpack on a little Honda, cruisin all over the damn place....
"As your attorney, I advise you to buy a motorcycle. How else can we cover a thing like this righteously?"

Offline bluezboy

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2012, 04:33:49 pm »
Hey all, I never got around to doing a write-up about our SOHC4 2012 trip through the Rockies this year. However, a video is better than words right? :D This video contains some clips of us riding Trail Ridge Road after handing off Godzilla to the Colorado crew... it was a long and boring trip back to Eastern Nebraska after that.

Rocky Mountain ride on a Honda CB500/Triumph Bonneville

 Oh man, that is a GREAT video, made me want to go hop on my bike and head that way. Maybe next year I'll pack up Pandora and head for the Rockies, that was a beautiful ride. Thanks for posting this, I need to show my wife this and maybe she'll one day at least go around the block with me!

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2012, 06:52:05 pm »
Welcome to Colorado. Colorado Rocky Mountain HIGH has a new meaning now  ;)
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline scottly

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #94 on: November 29, 2012, 08:08:02 pm »
Thanks Wes! Maybe your video will help inspire riders to sign up for GZ 3.0!
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 2012 Relay Ride Riders Logs **Rider's Logs Only**
« Reply #95 on: November 29, 2012, 09:11:08 pm »
Great vid Wes
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........