Topic: oil splashing from air passages

[MRieck]

Welding and reboring the block might take it too far for your old sleeves.
Just something to consider and also the cost of doing that as against another block and 900 sleeves that won't break open the walls.
Can you measure the ID & OD of the sleeves that were removed?
I'm quite curious about this.

That's a weird thing Mick....sometimes they break through...sometimes they don't.

[Sam Green Racing]

Perhaps they had more than one casting mold and all were noy quite the same

Sam.

[phi]

ID= 67 mm.
OD=74 mm.
The oil return holes are cut by me, thinking the oil was coursed by leaking headgasket. these are fit with a dowel and an o-ring.
there is breakthrough in all cylinder walls, but in the other three it is only cracks. I'm going to try to fill the gap between cylinders and sleeves, welding is out of the question due to the paper-thin material. If not possible to make it "standart lubricated", I will have to get a new set of cylinders, I guess.

[mick7504]

I just took a photo of a 67mm LA Sleeve (sleeve) and that is where the difference is.
I wonder what/who's sleeves you have there??
It is certainly something that I haven't seen before when kicking these engines out to 900 and that is what is got the old radar spinning. 



I also had a look at an early K, a later K and an F block, and they all took a 13/16" edit 13/64" drill bit between the barrel gaps.
Not real hi tech stuff but mainly for a comparison.

[mec]

see http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=54803.25
reply #43

the breakthrough between 1&2 and 3&4 is one issue. the other issue is the bad honda cast full of debris and air/oil bubbles. i have seen many cylinders (with bigger sleeves however) oiling through the cylinder walls between the fins.

cure: groove and press fit for an o-ring between sleeve and cylinder (what i do not have in my engines, and therefore i have to live with an old brit saying: all swimming in oil, is the best insurance for your engine).

mec

[mick7504]

The breakthrough point must be horribly close to 73/73.5mm.

[754]

 Sleeves vary, I got a worn 970cc block,  was thinking to maybe resleeve and use the pistons. I found sleeves on ebay, and they turned out to be smaller, I think around .025 . So I would have to prep another block. I should take a look at the first one and see if I can see the sleeves breking through.
 I think there were a few different OD's used.  At any rate 970 or 1000cc seemed to work, but the 1080's were leakers..

[phi]

I am wondering: can it be so, that this block is bored for something 2mm bigger, (950)and then have had special made sleeves to fit larger holes in order to lower displ. again? Though, why would anyone want to lower it ?
There is no text or marks on the sleeves. As mentioned, the block itself says "R900", and the pistons are stamped "haindst", which i understand is Henry Ape industries.

[MCRider]

Not Ape (as in A.P.E.)

HA= Henry ABE. Completely different.

[754]

 Not sure about Denmark, but cylinders here are quite cheap. Then you have the boring costs. I would examine and measure carefully to see if the pistons have acceptable clearance before going any further.

 Dou you know someone with a milling machine? if you epoxied, clocked in the bore, then offset a thou or two..it may clean up.
 Boring might be a tad tricky, just remove the excess epoxy or filler where the liner suts, make sure it is flush or lower, bearing scraper or knife will doo a good job iuf you are careful

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Franks' mention of epoxy made me remember something. I mentioned Big Jay at APE earlier. He did my 900 block for me. I also bought a 1000 kit of his and had him do the cylinders for those. That's my next engine  Anyway, he broke through on one cylinder on that block and he epoxied it. Don't have a clue how it will do but my fingers are crossed. Guess it all depends on where the opening is as to where you can put epoxy.

   

[fang]

+1  using epoxy  I was typing this as Jerry posted before me. 

I would seriously attempt to simply clean it, and then epoxy it.  I probably would ask the advise of the guys here, and then use J.B.Weld (standard, not "quick"-- the slower curing one has better temp properties)

If it doesn't work, then you can spend a the $$$ to do it over again. 

Epoxy is cheap and easy -- and it might just be a correct, permanent solution.

good luck!

-Fang

[754]

  If its very clean, you could assemble then add the epoxy or filler..  Devcon has some good ones.
What pisses me off a lot is I like to run plug wires thru there, might not be able to..sniff, sniff

[scottly]

I still can't understand how so much oil could get past the tight fit between the sleeve and the cylinder block, much less the head gasket and o-rings at the base. Is the crank-case properly vented?

[Big Jay]

900s don't break thru, something is wrong there.

The sleeve we use for the 1000 kits will not break thu on most blocks. When one does, we machine a counterbore on the bottom a certain size, and after the sleeve is installed, we can install two o'rings in it with a very tight fit. We have a fixture that forces the o'rings in. This prevents oil from coming up from the bottom and reaching the air passage.

There is also two passages that go up to open air that are close to the sleeves and not enough material for the base gasket to seal, so we epoxy those up.

[phi]

First, I have to apologize to Henry for calling him an ape.
next: I´m sure something is wrong, but what, and how to correct it? I think I am going to epoxy it, as it runs nice, but I am curious. What went wrong? I´m going to messure out the holes to see if they are off to one side.
How thick are the walls of a sleeve normally?

[lucky]

Why not just make the bore a little smaller.
Get the power some other way?

[mick7504]

Why not just make the bore a little smaller.e Get the power some other way?

Lucky,
The thing is mate, if you want more grunt than a pig farm, there's no substitute for cubes. 

[Retro Rocket]

Why not just make the bore a little smaller.e Get the power some other way?

Lucky,
The thing is mate, if you want more grunt than a pig farm, there's no substitute for cubes. 

Amen.....

[trueblue]

On wet sleeve engines around the base of the sleeve of the sleeve I put a little loctite 515 to keep the oil and water from shaking hands, I use it as a little extra insurance but it would probably work in this situation, but I can't guarantee it because I've never tried it, and as stated before, there is no replacement for displacement.

[754]

 Once you tried big bore, its hard to go back...

[phi]

Good news, and bad news.
Good news first: Epoxying the gap around the sleeves is a success. No more oil from the airgaps.
Bad news: when testing, my pants was still sprayed with oil. It turns out, that the oil from the airgaps was just part of the problem. I had a leaking headgasket as well! Went home, took it apart, and milled both block and head. Now I am waiting for a new gasket, and we are ready for the summer.

[fang]

Win!