Topic: 1975 cb550 Mission ACCOMPLISHED! getting the motor to turn free from seize/stuck

[rb550four]

Need better pics of cam

[goldarrow]

   You're a patient man, you've done everything a reasonable man would do with no success. Now it's time to take top end of that motor out of there and see why for.
   The motorcycle may seem magical and mysterious but really it's a machine. It's a machine like 200,000 other ones and has no will of it's own.  You are the owner, the master of this machine, armed with a shop manual ,tools and perseverance. Success may not come easy but it can be accomplished. Keep us updated.

very slow process but enjoying every minute of it!  thank you for your support.  what sucks is that things get expensive when you don't have the right tools to begin with.  will sure keep posted with the updates.  i'm also signing up for photobucket so hopefully i won't bore everyone with too many pictures!

[goldarrow]

Need better pics of cam

i noticed some scratches on head cover by the breather holes



some white residues/particles on the rubber seals?




cam shaft - i see some pitting/worn spot - salvagable?  replace?


out of 8 rocker arms, this one is the worst


bolt tip broke off and stuck in the thread from PO trying to open the cover, i guess

[rb550four]

I have this idea, that I haven't tried yet, but will soon as I still have a seized motor hanging from the rafters... it involves a piece of 16" long square stock slid through the coil  area halfways with 2 turnbuckles ,2- 3/8" cables,and 2 peices if flat steel slid through the head.
   The idea is to have the transmission  bolted to the frame and the rest of the above mentioned items pulling the head upward to the top of the frame without hammering the piston. It could work...like I said , I haven't tried it yet. The same principal as hanging the head from the rafters but you could put more pressure to it. I could try it first next week and see if it successful.
   For an out of frame pull XC 204 (thread on pg 2 tonight) check it out, see what you think.

[goldarrow]

just read the other thread, great idea.  now i need to think to improvise with a way to pull the head off.  extreme cases of stuck pistons may need acetone/atf mix for forever long.  so we'll see.  i don't like the idea of cutting the chain, and i don't have cutting tool for it.

[liPPy]

just read the other thread, great idea.  now i need to think to improvise with a way to pull the head off.  extreme cases of stuck pistons may need acetone/atf mix for forever long.  so we'll see.  i don't like the idea of cutting the chain, and i don't have cutting tool for it.

I had the exact same problem with the cam chain sprocket bolt. What a PITA!

I used a grinder to take about 3mm off the edges of a wrench to allow sufficient clearance between the top of the bolt and the edge of the chain tunnel. It was a tight fit but I was able to wrestle it out whilst using an extendable magnet to ensure the bolt didn't drop into the cam tunnel.

With that said, if I was doing it again I'd save myself the aggravation and just cut the chain. Chances are you'll need a new cam chain anyway.

[rb550four]

That cam looks really rough, like it didn't get enough lubrication, looks like it cooked to me. That rocker arm is junk. But the real question is , why is the top end in such a condition?  I guess you'll find out if the oil metering valves are intact and if there is any O rings  when the head comes off. Deal with the oil pump at a later date but don't forget about it. Be sure the oil passages aren't clogged when you clean the head  and jugs out...that kind of stuff. There is a reason for this damage and you'll want to know why so you can correct it. I would be on the lookout for a better cam, for sure.
  Where you able to get tools yet? Deep well 3/8" Metric socket set with ratchet, 2- 3" extentions, AutoZone has a ratcheting Metric combination wrench set  usually cheap.  3/8 dr.torque wrench, 3/8 dr. impact driver, assort. screwdrivers, Metric hex keys,and a valve spring compressor ( don't know which one would be better than others,don't like the one I have) and an air compressor( doesn't have to be big or real expensive) with some attachments ( Walmart has a cheap one to start off with) and if you have any change left, buy a cheap grinder with a metal cut off wheel so you can cut that timing chain off. Well, that's what I would do .

[goldarrow]

That cam looks really rough, like it didn't get enough lubrication, looks like it cooked to me.

. I will start making list of parts to get now. I read that people change cam to a cb650, is this straight swap? Or something else I need to get along with it.

That rocker arm is junk.

can i replace it individually?

But the real question is , why is the top end in such a condition?  I guess you'll find out if the oil metering valves are intact and if there is any O rings  when the head comes off. Deal with the oil pump at a later date but don't forget about it. Be sure the oil passages aren't clogged when you clean the head  and jugs out...that kind of stuff. There is a reason for this damage and you'll want to know why so you can correct it. I would be on the lookout for a better cam, for sure.
 

. Creating Inspection/to do list

Where you able to get tools yet? Deep well 3/8" Metric socket set with ratchet, 2- 3" extentions, AutoZone has a ratcheting Metric combination wrench set  usually cheap.  3/8 dr.torque wrench, 3/8 dr. impact driver, assort. screwdrivers, Metric hex keys,and a valve spring compressor ( don't know which one would be better than others,don't like the one I have) and an air compressor( doesn't have to be big or real expensive) with some attachments ( Walmart has a cheap one to start off with) and if you have any change left, buy a cheap grinder with a metal cut off wheel so you can cut that timing chain off. Well, that's what I would do .

Yes, got some tools already
-deep socket impact metrics but drive size too big. Have to get an adapter for it.
-torque wrench also too big I think 1/2" drive but it was $10 at harbor freight
-ratchet with extension already owned
-for some reasons, I don't have Philip head screw driver, been using the impact drive bits that borrowed from a friend. Also just bought my own set of bits
-no hex keys yet
-valve spring compressor just bought from Harbor freight, the cheap one $15
-already have air compressor that I think should be sufficient
-no grinder, but have hand dremel tool

[rb550four]

  You could buy lifters individually if they are still available but , it's gonna get pricey fast. Same with the cam. And you still don't know if the head or the valve cover is in good enough shape to reuse ( the for areas where the cam spins) ,The cam looks like it's showing a bit of wear and striations on those surfaces.
  Ebay motors, Japanese motorcycle Parts and type in Honda 550 there is usually a bunch of used heads, valve covers, and stuff that you could use in better shape than what you have if you are on a budget. But you'll have to look it over good when you get it, inspect everything that you think is bad on yours and check the condition of whatever you get to know that it is better and not junk. Be especially sure that the sparkplug hole threads are in good condition,install a spark plug fully into each of the holes before you do anything else with it.
  This I say may be prudent as you have no idea of the condition of the rest of the engine, and may find many more parts to replace.     Occasionally there will be a running motor for sale, or a complete spinning one (check Craigslist too) for around 300 (here) Perhaps that would be worth exploring...and it's always a crap shoot. But you could save allot of time,$ , irritation, and maybe have some parts left over. Just a thought.
  If you don't have a complete stock tool kit, Sears 18mm,3/8 dr., thin walled socket for spark plugs.

[XC204]

This is what I did to extract the jugs from the stuck pistons 1/2" allthread  some big flat washers and some 1/2 " ones and a hunk of unistrut and some flat bar stock. Just presses them out. There is a hidden unistrut rectangular nut in the channel that is bairly visable.

By xc204 at 2012-02-22

in use

By xc204 at 2012-02-22

[goldarrow]

  You could buy lifters individually if they are still available but , it's gonna get pricey fast. Same with the cam. And you still don't know if the head or the valve cover is in good enough shape to reuse ( the for areas where the cam spins) ,The cam looks like it's showing a bit of wear and striations on those surfaces.
  Ebay motors, Japanese motorcycle Parts and type in Honda 550 there is usually a bunch of used heads, valve covers, and stuff that you could use in better shape than what you have if you are on a budget. But you'll have to look it over good when you get it, inspect everything that you think is bad on yours and check the condition of whatever you get to know that it is better and not junk. Be especially sure that the sparkplug hole threads are in good condition,install a spark plug fully into each of the holes before you do anything else with it.
  This I say may be prudent as you have no idea of the condition of the rest of the engine, and may find many more parts to replace.     Occasionally there will be a running motor for sale, or a complete spinning one (check Craigslist too) for around 300 (here) Perhaps that would be worth exploring...and it's always a crap shoot. But you could save allot of time,$ , irritation, and maybe have some parts left over. Just a thought.
  If you don't have a complete stock tool kit, Sears 18mm,3/8 dr., thin walled socket for spark plugs.

i found this on fairly local to me about 2 hours drive http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/mcy/2988898485.html
the guy said the motor turns over, he would do a compression check tomorrow.  what else i should ask him?

no progress done over the weekend as things around the kitchen decided to all break down on us.  over the range microwave and hood broke down.  so i got those replaced over the weekend.  good thing was that we got them cheap!

[rb550four]

You would want to know when it ran last, was it the person's bike or a different owner?

[goldarrow]

You would want to know when it ran last, was it the person's bike or a different owner?

From the look of the ad, looks like the guy sells a lot of motors, so he might have a salvage yard or something of that nature

[rb550four]

Ya, I had to rush off and didn't read the ad before i posted reply sorry.
 You will want to know how complete it is too, carbs,starter, that kind of stuff.
  Like I said before, it could be a crap shoot but it may be allot better than what you have now or it may be in excellent shape, you won't know till you get it. If you can afford it get it because you'll be spending it on parts anyhow. That's my 2 cents.

[Stev-o]

Always nice to have a spare motor. You can always sell off the parts you don't need. Get it!

[goldarrow]

Always nice to have a spare motor. You can always sell off the parts you don't need. Get it!

the guy seems very unresponsive about the motor for sale....

so, i think i'm gonna go ahead and break the cam chain, otherwise my bike will never go no where.   but will i be able to reuse the chain if i use the chain rivet/breaker tool?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Cam-Drive-Chain-Breaker-Riveter-Rivet-Riveting-Cutter-shop-tool-/110839736357?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item19ce902825&vxp=mtr

[goldarrow]

just got a response from the guy selling the motor.  it doesn't come with carb, starter motor, point cover, from look of pictures 1 exhaust mouting stud missing?  the motor as does look very pretty.  compression is 100psi, serial number matches the year CB550E-1055345.  about 9000 miles on the motor but who knows for sure, right?  he said i could bring some tools if i want to do inspection.   $300 is this too much? fair? or cheap?

edit: pics were gone, had to remove the links

[Statenheimer]

Honestly, just from the look of it, I wouldn't pay anywhere near that much for it.

I bought 2.5 bikes for that much money which included 2 550 engines and a seized 500.

I bet there are members on here with a good engine that you could get with shipping for that much...

Just my 2 cents.

[rb550four]

What a great deal! $300 for 2 550's and a 500! Bet it didn't take you long to get it on the truck! There is always a guy who has this stuff,doesn't care what it's worth and needs the money. The catch is finding him before he sells it or finds out that he could get more.
  This however is not the case for Goldarrow, and if there was to be a member that would sell a perfectly good motor for $100 it still wouldn't be the case as I would buy them all day long. I mean all dam day long.
     It doesn't seem too far from the mark (to me)if it's a good motor. I admit it aint pretty but, when was the last time you saw a clean original 40 year old motor?
  Compression and the ability to spin sounds promising. The story about it may be horseschlitz but we all know it's a crapshoot anyways.
   Perhaps you would have a hundred dollar motor in good shape for  Goldarrow?

[Statenheimer]

I apologize if somehow that response came out wrong, I wasn't trying to flaunt the deal that I got at all.  More so I was agreeing with you that there ARE always those people/deals out there, so it may not always be advisable to go for the first thing that comes up.

In no way did I say it had to be a $100 motor.  Shipping can be much less expensive than some people think depending on distance.  Leaving the $300 mark open for many possibilities.

I do have a motor, but do not have the compression taken on it yet, nor assessed any other parts of it yet.  I wouldn't want to inadvertantly screw over someone.  I am also extremely far away...

[goldarrow]

After about a month, 70 posts and counting, does this picture mean anything to anyone here who has been following this thread?

[LesterPiglet]

The closest cam lobe looks pretty worn.

[goldarrow]

this afternoon, i went home thinking that i'm already this far in to the bike, damages has been done to my wallet already, plus i'm having fun, and telling myself why the heck not.  so i grabbed a 14mm rachet wrench that i got from harbor freight.  the worst damage i could have done is either break the rachet, or break the bolt, or more?...   anyhow,  i started wrenching, no go, wrenching some more, no go, then i started using cheap 1lb dead blow hammer and started tapping the wrench.  after a few times, things started to move! 

i was doing this for a while, putting in more penetrants, tap the wrench, penetrants started to shoot out the plug holes, i was enjoying it.   then i realized that i better stop before i get caried away and make more damages to the cylinders.   

i filled up the cylinders with more atf/acetone and left it.   

plan for the weekend, if nothing else come up.
- invent homemade soda blast machine and have it ready
- take off the head
- wrench the pistons some more, clean up, and may be remove pistons
- carb cleaning on the to do list also


cam chain and sprocket as it sat last week


cam chain as sprocket as it sits today!   now the pistons move! even slightly but the engine moves!


now i feel like this thread is coming to an end, and time to start new thread!

for the future readers to get the engine unseized
1. make sure that the engine is really frozoen from rust or whatever the cause and nothing else like mainshaft, clutch, etc.
2. penetrants, pretty much anything everyone here recommend will work, and you will need lots of it
3. TIME also lots of it
4. PATIENTS more than no.2 and 3 above

the way to do it?
1. penetrants
2. rock the bike in high gear, or use rachet to wrench the rotor
3. time
4. patients
5. time
6. patients
7. repeat steps 1 to 6 (for how long?  could be days, weeks, months, depending on how bad the engine seized)

and lastly, thanks everyone for the support!

[Stev-o]

Success! I knew you could do it!

[rb550four]

Congratulations! I see both cam bolts, means that you're on your way. Good luck and enjoy the rest of the project. We'll be looking forward to your next thread.