Topic: Yet ANOTHER electrical issue

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Guys,

I hate to start another post on electrical. There are a couple other posts that are ongoing with multiple contributors and multiple problem bikes that I am following. This, however helpful it is, can be rather confusing. My wife says I'm confused due to ADHD. Anyway, my 75 CB750F has had issues. Imagine that! I'm kinda leary of getting it too far from home until I'm satisfied its smoothed out.

Two Tired, you have been doing a great job (more accolades) so I hope you'll pick up on this before you get too bored.

Using Electrex reg/rectifier unit RR24 & Dyna ignition & coils

Battery hanging around 12.5V after charge with no riding - Is this an issue? (headlight fuse removed)
Tested at 12.27V
Voltage at Solenoid 12.27V
Voltage at fusebox main in & out 12.27V - Cleaned male & female connectors
Voltage at Ignition switch - switch off 12.27V in / 0 volts out - Cleaned male & female connectors
Voltage at Ignition switch - switch on  11.09V in / 11.06V out
Voltage at Regulator switch on - green & black - 10.90V - grounded to another location with same results
Voltage at Regulator switch on - green & white - 10.82V

Stator tested to 0.5ohms on all 3 pairs of yellow wires at 8 pin connector
Field coil tested at 7.5ohms at 8 pin connector
These figures are in line with my spare units also

Voltage test at battery while running (headlight on)
Voltage before cranking up 12.75V (had 2a charger on it prior to test)
1000rpm - 11.95V
2500rpm - 12.35V
3500rpm - 12.65V
4000rpm - 12.75V
5000rpm - 12.9V
6500rpm - 13.15V

Voltage at various points along the Black hot wire - not running (headlight fuse removed)
Blinker relay 10.65V
Rear brake switch 10.69V

I tried to follow instructions and get as many numbers as possible.

I would expect a voltage drop along the (+) wire (black) throughout the harness. By the time the voltage gets back to the regulator and other points, it has dropped almost 2 volts with the Ignition switch on. Is this drop normal?
It's my understanding that the white wire from the regulator is what determines the alternator output.
I do not have a hygrometer to measure specific gravity of the battery cells but one is easily obtained. 

Should I attempt to jump the regulator input directly from the battery to see what voltage develops on the white output?

From what I see the numbers are within reason but I'm concerned about the voltage drop.

Thanks
Jerry

  

 


   

[TwoTired]

Battery hanging around 12.5V after charge with no riding - Is this an issue? (headlight fuse removed)

No red flags, but how long after charging does it drop to this point.  If your charger isn't holding it at 13.2 (at least) it isn't doing its job.  However, the battery voltage will drop to 12.6 (Depending on temp) and still be 100% full.  Given time, it will slowly drop farther down. 0.1 volts could be within measurement error of the test equipment and operator.

Tested at 12.27V

What happened to 12.5V?

Voltage at Solenoid 12.27V
Voltage at fusebox main in & out 12.27V - Cleaned male & female connectors
Voltage at Ignition switch - switch off 12.27V in / 0 volts out - Cleaned male & female connectors
Voltage at Ignition switch - switch on  11.09V in / 11.06V out

What you need here is a current measurement (at the main fuse is fine) or a simultaneous reading of the battery voltage to determine interconnect voltage drop.  My question is; where did 1.18 volts go?

Voltage at Regulator switch on - green & black - 10.90V - grounded to another location with same results
Voltage at Regulator switch on - green & white - 10.82V

So, the regulator contacts only lose 0.08 volts...cool.

Stator tested to 0.5ohms on all 3 pairs of yellow wires at 8 pin connector
Field coil tested at 7.5ohms at 8 pin connector
These figures are in line with my spare units also

They are both about .3 ohms high.  Did you subtract out the meter lead resistance?

Voltage test at battery while running (headlight on)
Voltage before cranking up 12.75V (had 2a charger on it prior to test)
1000rpm - 11.95V
2500rpm - 12.35V
3500rpm - 12.65V
4000rpm - 12.75V
5000rpm - 12.9V
6500rpm - 13.15V

 Did you use the electric start?  150 amps will suck the battery off full charge.  It will take at least 15 times longer run time than start time to restore the battery, then a bit longer to reach 14.5 V, which is where the Vreg contacts will begin to chatter, cutting the alternator output.  The voltage should wiggle around between 13.2 and 13.8 to 14.5 when a good battery is fully charged.  Depends on the sampling rate and sample duration your meter is actually looking or displaying the voltage. The number show a steady rise in voltage at the battery, which could be from a normal charge rate increase.  Did the numbers stabilize at the reading above?  Or, would they have continued to increase had you held the RPM for a longer duration?  Your battery isn't at peak charge, while being charged, until about 14.5 V.  It can be maintained at peak with 13.2V.

Voltage at various points along the Black hot wire - not running (headlight fuse removed)
Blinker relay 10.65V
Rear brake switch 10.69V

I tried to follow instructions and get as many numbers as possible.

You're doing fine.  But, those numbers indicate a significant voltage loss in the bikes interconnection components.

I would expect a voltage drop along the (+) wire (black) throughout the harness. By the time the voltage gets back to the regulator and other points, it has dropped almost 2 volts with the Ignition switch on. Is this drop normal?

Normal is one thing, proper is another. 2 volts is 1/6th of your battery potential being thrown away by your bike's interconnection. I'd say it ought to be 2 times better.

It's my understanding that the white wire from the regulator is what determines the alternator output.

Yes, that and RPM.

I do not have a hygrometer to measure specific gravity of the battery cells but one is easily obtained. 

If you wish.  But, your battery seems to be behaving acceptably.

Should I attempt to jump the regulator input directly from the battery to see what voltage develops on the white output?

Won't hurt.  But, if you start reading more than 14.5 volts at the battery, back off.  You can also jump directly to the white wire, too, bypassing the Vreg alltogether.  But, your posted numbers say the regulator isn't limiting the charge rate so far.  Won't know for sure until it stabilizes above 13.2V at the battery.

From what I see the numbers are within reason but I'm concerned about the voltage drop.

You should be.  It's probably not coincidence that your battery voltages are on the low side.

Here's some numbers:
You are probably pulling 11-12 amps through you main fuse (Probably more with dyna coils and the high beam).  But, lets say it is 144 watts (P= IxE).   A two volt drop means at least 22 watts is being dumped by your bike's interconnection components.  The alternator at full power, puts out 210 watts.  So, you are losing 10% of your charge power to heating up connections and atmosphere.

Also, with the current data (2 volt loss at 12 amps), we can calculate that your bike interconnection has a resistance of 0.167 ohms (E/I =R).  Copper interconnect wire on the bike has about 0.005 ohms per foot, give or take 0.001 ohms. So, you either have 33 feet of wire carrying the major current load of the main fuse, or you have connections and/or switches that have forgotten how to do their jobs with efficiency.
  
You can measure the voltage across each wire segment or each component to find the big losers.  The more current drawn through the device, the more significant will be the voltage loss with resistance.  But, with no current drawn, there will be no voltage loss in the circuit.

Hope this helps,
 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

how long after charging does it drop to this point?
   You can watch the meter drop. My old charger (shorted it right after I did this. Its toast. Sears unit.   Fathers Day is bringing me a Dual Output 2 Battery Battery Tender) was a float charger but it wouldn't hold at 13.2V (with generic output rating of 12V) and would charge up to 13V maybe. Checked the battery voltage without charger at 2:30am then when I started back about noon same day (Monday). Stayed at 12.5V overnight.

What happened to 12.5V?
Dropped  to 12.27V from testing - switch on, lights on, etc - electric starter once

What you need here is a current measurement (at the main fuse is fine) or a simultaneous reading of the battery voltage to determine interconnect voltage drop.  My question is; where did 1.18 volts go?
Don't understand what/how - please explain procedure so I'll do it correctly
Yeah, where did that damn 1.18V go I want it back!!! I need it at my white reg wire.....

So, the regulator contacts only lose 0.08 volts...cool.
Keep in mind that I am using an Electrex solid state unit and my "rectifier" and "regulator" readings are coming from the same color coded wires that these 2 seperate units would use
My thoughts are that 0.08V drop is good

They are both about .3 ohms high.  Did you subtract out the meter lead resistance?
The meter I used shows no resistance when the leads are connected together. It's a simple digital Radio Shack pocket unit that goes to 1 decimal place for resistance and 2 places for voltage. And it's not yellow! Auto range, VDC, VAC, diode, Kohms, continuity. The test was not performed at the bullet connectors but rather at the ensueing 8 pin connector for alternator and field coil. I have my original stator and it checks out at 7.2 ohms but that is at the bullet connectors. I'd use it but one of the connectors and the covering jacket are cooked from previous issue.

Did you use the electric start?
Guilty as charged your honor.
14.5 V, which is where the Vreg contacts will begin to chatter, cutting the alternator output
The highest output I recorded was 13.15V at 6500rpm. I'd really like to see that mythical 14.5V. Remember, Electrex unit. That was just the momentary output at rpm test.
Did the numbers stabilize at the reading above?
Only stability I saw was at 12.5V battery voltage overnight but I think the alternator output voltage would have increased in relation to higher rpm.

Won't know for sure until it stabilizes above 13.2V at the battery.
Can't seem to get it there to get it stabilized. At this rate I'll have to run it past 7000rpm for a period of time. If it gets up there from riding, I take an immediate measurement of say 13.2V, then it falls back to, say 12.5V, my previous stability point, then would I consider the battery as my limiting point?

You can measure the voltage across each wire segment or each component to find the big losers.  The more current drawn through the device, the more significant will be the voltage loss with resistance.  But, with no current drawn, there will be no voltage loss in the circuit.
Connectors are always an issue. And there's about a million of those SOBs.

MY PLAN FOR TONIGHT & TOMORROW

(1) Use my non float 10/2 Amp charger at 2A to bring the battery up to the chargers verified output of 14.5V then unplug the charger. Check & watch the battery charge to see what it's doing. Check battery voltage in the morning to see what Voltage it has stabilized at. 
(2) perform battery (+) jump to reg in & check the reg out voltage and battery voltage with bike running.
(3) perform battery (+) jump to reg out & check the battery voltage. Will I get an instantaneous reading or will the battery have to charge up for a reading?
(4) I would like to perform the current measurement at the main fuse, etc  but I'm really not sure what/how you mean. I included a reading of "Voltage at fusebox main in & out 12.27V" that was performed with engine not running. I'll get one with it running.
(5) use kick starter to start each time (if I can remember how) and take running voltage readings at various rpms with headlight on low and record final battery voltage when I shut it down
(5) take it out on I-25 for 30 to 60 minutes @ 5 to 6K them immediately record battery voltage
(6) If this SOB doesn't hold it's pre-ride voltage, I'm going for it's yearly battery replacement. Run it up to 14.45V (charger max) and take to to Rocky Mountain Park Thursday to see what 250 + miles will do to it.
(7) Start a methodical approach to clean every friggin connector that I can locate

TT - Thanks. I know you have to get tired of this. You sure it's not TOO tired of this? When we cross paths, refreshments are on me !!!
Jerry

[Bodi]

I have installed a few automotive (horn?) relays at the regulator on these bikes, it seems to make a big difference - no more dead or boiling batteries.
Wire the relay coil from the regulator black wire (disconnected from regulator) to ground, and the contact between the battery + and the regulatore terminal where the black wire was. I add a 10A inline fuse in the battery-to-regulator wire but that could be skipped if you're brave.
You get poor charging if the regulator voltage is too low and there isn't enough oomph for the field coil. If there IS enough oomph, then you are still regulating the battery voltage from a reduced voltage which means the battery voltage is actually too high... if you lose 2 volts at the regulator and it is successfully holding 14.5V there, your battery is actually at 16.5 volts and bubbling wildly.
The relay avoids such troubles.

[HondaMan]

One of the most common problems I've seen on the aging Honda (generic) electrics is the cadmium coatings on the connectors. As they absorb moisture, they begin to act like a poor diode, pointed against the incoming current, creating little resistances everywhere and generally dropping voltages throughout the bike.

Cleaning them helps for a while, but, in particular, the alkaline soap at the quarter car wash place accellerates the moisture-flaking cycle: it shows up as a white (or gray) powder in the connections.

Something that greatly helps is a product called LPS-1. It's not widely found, sometimes at Ace Hardware or independent hardware stores. Don't confuse it with LPS-2 or 2.5 or 3, which are other products for other purposes. The LPS-1 is a liquid polymer that hates itself, but loves metal, chromium and chromates. In this situation, I would clean as many connectors as I can find, applying a drop of LPS-1 on each at reassembly. When this stuff touches metal, it grabs hold. But, when it touches itself, it runs away, leaving metal-to-metal contact, covered over with a waterproof, airtight polymer coating that never dries out.

This stuff is so effective, it will let enduro bikes run with the magneto points completely under water. For those guys who don't believe me, they can ask the riders I've helped win races. My demo used to be: pull off the points cover, spray LPS-1 on newly-installed points, start the bike and turn the garden hose right on the points. The bike never misses a beat, but an untreated bike instantly dies of shorted points.

I use this stuff to solve many, many industrial electrical problems. It's 'way too cheap for what it does.

[csendker]

I would clean as many connectors as I can find

What's the best way you've found to clean the connectors?  Chemicals?  Sandpaper?  Magic Wand?  And then do you need to reapply LPS-1 each time you disconnect & reconnect the connector?

[TwoTired]

Jerry,

The electrex unit confuses the issue, as I do not know it's internal design. Got an internal schematic or a parameter spec sheet describing its input to output function?  Their web site has nothing except "buy me".  For all I know, they may have decided 14.5V was too high and regulate the alternator output at some lower voltage.  Having never seen one, I kinda assumed it would mimic what it replaced.  Perhaps not.

Okay.... Step back.  What do we know.

1- Your battery, with your meter, measures 12.5 V the day after a full charge.
Do we know that your bike is not keeping the battery at full charge through normal operation?
The day after a ride, what is your battery voltage before the next ride?  If less that 12.5 V, you have a problem to solve.  If 12.5V is there, you have reliability.

2. Your connectors probably need cleaning as your testing has shown.  But, do we know there is a reliability issue?

3. Your testing has shown the alternator is working.

4. The electrex is doing something different than the stock reg, and rect.  But, do we know it has failed?

Are we creating problems to solve?

Do you have the stock components, reg and rect, to swap in temporarily?

Cheers,

[750duo]

HondaMan
Something that greatly helps is a product called LPS-1. It's not widely found, sometimes at Ace Hardware or independent hardware stores. Don't confuse it with LPS-2 or 2.5 or 3, which are other products for other purposes.

LPS-1 is widely used in the aircraft industry. You can order it on line at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/lpsspraylube.php

       

[HondaMan]

I would clean as many connectors as I can find

What's the best way you've found to clean the connectors?  Chemicals?  Sandpaper?  Magic Wand?  And then do you need to reapply LPS-1 each time you disconnect & reconnect the connector?

No, the stuff is hard to remove, actually. Mine is still there after 28 years! The only things I've found that will remove it are triclorethylene, triclorothane, and naptha. You can get the latter 2 as "brake cleaner" at Checker Auto, should you want to remove it. I have it on my cars, motorhome, Airstream, etc., etc.

Cleaning the connectors: ask Two Tired, he has a nice (obviously experienced) post around here somewhere about that.

[csendker]

And the cleaning tips from TT were...

Male terminals you already know how to access and clean.  The female bullets are more interesting.  I made a tool to clean these.  I got a piece of brass tubing from the hardware store in a smaller diameter than the bullet males.  I also bought some crocus or emery cloth.  Very fine abrasive, I think it has a coating of red jewelers polishing rouge on one side.  I used a razor saw to cut a slot in the end of the tubing wide enough to accept the thickness of the cloth. Cut widths of cloth about the length of the bullet male and make the strips long enough to wrap around the end of the tube with the abrasive exposed.  Chuck the tube in your electric drill and insert into the female connector.  As the drill spins it cleans and polishes the contact surface.  You can adjust the number of wraps to make good pressure inside.   If needed, readjust the female socket tension for a good grab onto the cleaned male bullet.  Just before final assembly, I squirt a little DeOxit on both the male and female connectors.
The new tool makes the female bullet contacts easier and faster to clean than the males!

Female spade terminals I clean with a modified thin fingernail file about the same or less thickness than the male spade terminal.  It was well used and not very aggressive cutting.  I ground one so its width was about the same as the male spade.  I made mine cut on extraction from the female spade socket. One or two insertion/extraction cycles is usually all it takes to clean the terminal.   The male terminals are exposed to cleaning like the Bullet type.  A little DeOxit and reassemble.

Full post they came from --> http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=8801.msg81708#msg81708

I was just fishing for other methods.  

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

TT,
Todays report.
  I will attach the Electrex RR24 wiring schematic. Basic. Colors match. No specs.
Now that we have this handy it may be of use in the future but not now. As I was jumping from the battery to the in & out of the "reg" black & whites I cooked that SOB. Just my luck!! Even had to replace batteries in my meter but that didn't matter.
  I started out my day by checking the battery voltage. 12.71V. Unplugged the 2A charger last night at 3:30. The battery was reading 14.4V with the charger hooked up. Immediately went to 13.4V when unhooked and started dropping ending up at 12.71V this am. Put the headlight fuse back in. Cleaned the connectors which I was using. OK fine. Now it's time to get going. Jumped from the battery to the reg black. Battery voltage. White had battery voltage. Jumped to the white. Checked voltage. Battery voltage. Thats when I touched the RR24 and burned my fingers. Unplugged jumpers and checked at black & white. Battery voltage minus (as before). 11.--V. Oh s--t!.
  Since I want to ride it tomorrow, the new battery idea wouldn't benefit unless I had the R & R working. Dug out my old units. Checked the rectifier. It had some previous heat issues with some melting of wires. What the heck, I gotta try it. Continuity, one way only, on both bottom terminals in the connector against each top terminal. Lucky.  Little bit of resistance differences in 1 of 3  tests with each bottom terminal. Hooked both R & R up. Checked battery voltage. The voltage was climbing but I didn't see 13V.
   Put everything back on and took a ride. Battery started out at 12.44V. Did 65 miles straight through averaging 5500rpm. Pulled into the garage and checked voltage. 12.66V. Very positive sign. I wonder if the battery condition is keeping it down? I can't always run 85 to 90 however.
  The Electrex unit was acting just like the stock unit so I don't think we can blame that.
  I can try to adjust the old regulator, replace the battery and see if I can get a higher resting voltage, definitely clean more connections, ride it and keep an eye on the battery voltage, blow it up.

Anyway, I'm going to put about 250 miles on it tomorrow. Judgement day !!! Taking my meter along.
Damn old Hondas. Don't you just love them.
Jerry
 

[TwoTired]

Sorry Jerry, I feel partly responsible for blowing up your electrex.  With the standard Vreg you can place 12V on the white wire without hurting the vreg. The Electrex probably has a transistor driving the field coil and putting 12V there back biased the transitor (because the black wire had a lower voltage) and let the smoke out.  Only the factory knows how to put the smoke in those things.  And, without the smoke, they won't work.
 In hindsight, I should have told you to disconnect the white wire from the electrex before V application to the white wire.
I'd have done this automaticly in person.  But, didn't think to warn you about it in print correspondence.
However, I am wondering why you inserted battery voltage on a wire known to already have it?   

Anyway, If the electrex isn't encapsulated, I might be able to fix it for you.  But, if the internal parts are in a glob of potting compound, it's now a fishing weight.

However, now that you have the stock parts back in, it seem pretty clear what is going on.
Most likely, all the connector resistance is stealing power from your alternator so it has to work very hard to overcome the losses.  Further, since the alternator isn't getting full battery voltage, it isn't working as hard as it should especially at lower RPM.

Remember best case alternator output is 210 Watts. If it only gets 10 v for its magnetic field. It's probably operating at 83 percent of capacity, which is 175 watts.  If the wiring connectors are thowing away 20-25 watts and the bike uses 144 (12 amps for lighting and,ignition, etc), that's 164-to 170 watts consummed which doesn't leave much to charge a battery. And, of course, at RPMs near idle, the battery is draining.
Even a brand new battery is going to struggle under this regime.

Don't adjust your mechanical regulator. All it does is turn down the alternator when the batt voltage gets to 14.5.  Until then, it passes all the voltage from the black wire to the white wire.

Best of luck on your trip.  Remember, you can turn off the headlight to make that power available to charge the battery back up.

Cheers,

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

TT,

  Taking out the Vreg isn't such a bad thing, it's a learning thing. Just glad I save my old parts and glad I can afford new ones. I now have one cool looking paper weight to hold down all these posts I have printed out. Can get pretty windy in Colorado. I'd send it to you to play with but it is encapsulated. I actually thought about jumping both sides of it but thought "that shouldn't be necessary, I'd probably put too much load on it and burn it up". Not you're fault. I'm glad you're helping because I've learned alot. I've reprocessed this stuff so my own ADHD brain can understand. It's really rather simple but seems so intimidating initially.

  As far as putting the voltage to it, my feeble attempt was to put the higher voltage directly from the battery to the white to see if the higher voltage would excite the field coil more and raise the alternator output. Guess I could have hooked the battery charger up to it to get an even higher voltage since my battery does not go above 12.75V on it's own thus bypassing the voltage drop and applying a full 14.45V directly?  See, I did learn something.
 
  Now, as far as the battery goes, I can't seem to get the voltage to stay above 12.50 to 12.75 or so. I have seen worse. Would/should a new properly precharged battery hold a charge above my 12.5V and how much should I expect? Of course that is provided the system could support it. Has my battery possibly reached it's full potential and I shouldn't expect it to climb higher? If this is the case, would that new battery hold it's, say, 13.5V charge if my system could put out say 13.5V or higher as it's supposed to? Perhaps I could experiment with a new battery once I get that need Battery Tender and keep a plug for it close to where I park the bike for continual use.

  I hope my experiences and questions are also beneficial to the other guys. It seems that my components may be in order. Looks like I'll continue chasing connections until every last one is cleaned. Once I accomplish this, as I figure it, the next step is to replace the whole harness the next time I do a complete tear down. I could have a partially broken strand or two that I'll never see. I actually have another used harness but I'm not sure of it's condition. If I were to check each wire in it off the bike, how would I best accomplish this? I'm getting used to testing with a voltage applied. If they still make them I'd better get a new one and hold on to it. 

TT, you're the man !!

Jerry   

[TwoTired]

You might be expecting too much from your battery in the way of voltage.  Take a look at this chart:
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/SoC.xls

The wet cell (Sb/Sb) battery in our Hondas should be at 12.6 volts when fully charged and self stabilized off the charger.  The battery doesn't store electricity, the chemical reaction that takes place inside creates electricity during discharge.  After the chemical reaction process has depleted, delivering electricity to it can cause the chemical reaction to reverse (recharging).

The recharge process is not 100% efficient.  You have to put in more power than is actually stored or that you will ever get out.  Further, the offered potential must be higher in order make the power flow into the battery.  In other words the charger voltage must be higher than the battery voltage to make power flow into it and cause the chemical conversion.

After the battery reaches full chemical saturation, extra injected ions create a surcharge in the cells, as more ions are present than the chemicals can normally capture in stability.  This build up continues until about 14.5 or even 15 V where the electrolyte starts to give up its hydrogen atoms and the battery appears to "boil".  When charge current is discontinued, the ions dissipate until stable bonds are achieved, which is about 2.1 volts per cell.

The battery can sustain a certain amount of surcharge without damage or ill effects, due in part to the inefficient conversion process.  This is how a charging system can make a battery have a surcharge above what it would naturally have during vehicle operation as it tries to keep the battery at 110% of its rated charge level.

If you wish to test your battery capacity, you can do it with the starter on your bike.  Two warnings.  1 - Deep cycling this type of battery shortens it's life somewhat.  2 - A good strong battery can overheat your starter motor with continuous use.
The 750 uses a 14 amp hour battery and the starter draws about 150 amps.  This means the battery has enough energy to crank the bike about ninety seconds, give or take.  Of course, the battery will need a good long recharge afterward.  Usually, I say a battery is good enough if it will crank the bike vigorously 15 to 30 seconds.  This won't damage the starter or the scar the battery too much.  And, demonstrates the batteries ability to deliver power.

Hope this helps,

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Rode 315 miles today in temperatures from 90 to 53 back to 90. Hail and rain included. Good day. Made it back in one piece - myself and bike. Yesterday's ride was 65 miles averaging a steady 5500rpm +  and returned with more voltage (12.66 vs 12.44) than when I left. Today I came back with 12.23V, my bike was happy, and my riding was quite varied - Interstate, highways, city, national park, 13000ft mountain pass and dogging it up to and back from the pass, traffic jams, supper then a nice leisurely 70mph @ 4600rpm stroll home for 45 miles.

I still want to see that elusive and mythical 14.5V so I'll probably have to hook the meter up to my other bike to see it. I'll continue to clean connectors but I'm taking a break for now after 3 solid days. When I take it down to the frame for a rebuild I'm putting a new harness on but thats going to be sometime down the road.

THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!    HOPE I CAN RETURN THE FAVOR SOME DAY

[78 k550]

Glad you guys made it back safe and enjoyed riding and meeting you. Hope to be on the Mt Evan's run when you do it.

Paul