Topic: Pink Slip and How to register at CA DMV

[Acbrooks2]

Need a bit of advice from folks in the know. I recently bought a 1976 CB400F from a guy who had acquired the bike from another dealer a while back. The bike came with the Pink Slip with all the tear-off sections and what looks like the original owners details (or at least back to the 90s).

How do I now register it in my name seeing as he was not the guy I bought it off? Pretty sure the bike wasn't stolen as the guy is a good honest chap, but i dont want to necessarily just fill it in on behalf of the own listed on the title.

Any advice?

[Greggo]

My advice is to call the 1-800 number for the CA DMV, and make sure the bike you've bought isn't stolen.  Wait on hold (or do the callback thing, which is AWESOME,) be EXTREMELY nice, and have your VIN ready.  Last time I did it, the girl just started the process of registering it to check the national database, assuring me it wasn't reported stolen in any state.  Trying to register that bike may be tricky.  Should you take my advice, and call the DMV, approach it as a hypothetical (say you're thinking of buying the bike...) and ask them how the bike could be registered with the circumstances you're dealing facing.

My .02 

[Randy]

Pretty easy.. Go To your local DMV... Tell them the story and there is a form you can fill out telling how you got the bike and the back history.. I did it with mine... I bought my CB500 from a guy in Hollywood , who got it from and old man in Venice... And you have a pink.. So they will go back and find the original owner.. Its all good.. It might be costly.. So if the DMV lady is cute.. Tell her she is the most beautiful girl in the place..It worked for me.. I was going to pay 350.00 to get a pink, but after I said that.. She cut it to 125.00.. Good luck.. Friday's in the moring are good to go also..

[tomkimberly]

Take the pink slip along with the bill of sale to the DMV (or AAA) and fill out a statement of facts. Pay your fees and leave. BTW, I think you have ten days to change owership, and you are not responsible for any prior owners late fees or penalities.

Read here too:  http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc9562.htm

*if you do not have a bill of sale, make your own, just make sure you get the date right to get waiver of any fees or penalties.

Tom

[TwoTired]

Has the "pink" been signed and dated by the listed owner of the bike, where it says "releases all interest"?

Is the bike "in the CA computer system"?

You will be held liable for all the late fees if it is in the system.  Ca will want to punish you for the bike's owner not paying regularly into the DMV collection coffers or registering it as Non-Op.

If it is out of the computer system and the pink is signed as released by registered owner, you may be able to get a CHP number verification form, to obtain a new title, turn in the old plates, buy new ones and pay title transfer and registration fees.

Pity you didn't tell us how long ago the bike was registered operable.

I true CA moto dealer can reinstate and transfer the title with just title transfer and registration fees.  Late and punitive fees don't apply to dealers.

[tomkimberly]

You will be held liable for all the late fees if it is in the system.  Ca will want to punish you for the bike's owner not paying regularly into the DMV collection coffers or registering it as Non-Op.

Not true, follow the link I posted earlier in this thread.   

Tom

[TwoTired]

You will be held liable for all the late fees if it is in the system.  Ca will want to punish you for the bike's owner not paying regularly into the DMV collection coffers or registering it as Non-Op.

Not true, follow the link I posted earlier in this thread.   

Tom

I did follow the link.  Read it again, it says DMV MAY waive the fees.  They are not required to act in your favor, and most likely won't if they suspect it's been more than ten days since the transfer/sale took place.  Begging MAY help if the person you are dealing with is in a good mood and has only a loose grip on a god complex.  If they suspect anything irregular in the transfer of ownership they are more likely to be uncooperative.

A lot depends on how and when the pink was signed over.  I do know that a Bill Of Sale from an individual NOT listed on the pink will not be accepted unless there is a chain of B.O.S. documents going back to the owner of record.

If the bike is not already in the CA computer records (I heard they keep those for 7 years) , any penalties can be avoided, by requesting a new title, but they will need VIN verification from the CHP, and you will have to pay for new license plates.

If you are buying the bike from a CA registered dealer, all the late and penalty fees are waived.

Personally, I try to avoid DMV whenever possible and get my vehicles transferred and registered through AAA.  They are far more likely to give you a break, in my experience, without the requisite ass kissing.

Cheers,

[tomkimberly]

Having "bought" and registered over 14 bikes over the past 20 years, I have never been required to pay any late fees nor any non-op, or past due registrations.

Of course if you go to the DMV with a tude, don't expect them to apply the laws in your favor.

The next time you need to register a newly purchased or restored bike, PM me, I'll be glad to walk you through the process.

Tom

[Acbrooks2]

Thanks guys for all the advice! The guy i bought it from will give me a BOS no problem and will date it whatever I ask (to keep in 10 days). The pink has not been signed by the owner listed on the pink and it dates back to 1996/97. With this in mind, I am assuming it is out of the system.

I cannot honestly believe that even the DMV can expect to saddle a new owner with fees that were rightfully the reponsibility of another. I would hope they can connect the names so that if that person did not pay fees over years and then comes to register another vehicle they will have a record of it and make them pay - kinda like parking tickets!

Is that asking too much?!!

[TwoTired]

I recommend you don't show the unsigned pink to DMV.

[tomkimberly]

I recommend you don't show the unsigned pink to DMV.

Is that your attempt at humor?     

I'd not worry if the pink slip was not signed, that's what the statment of facts is for, so you can tell how you came to now be the legal owner of the bike.

Tom

[TwoTired]

If the bill of sale for the bike is not from the last registered owner of record, this is a broken chain of ownership.  DMV can't tell if the bike was stolen, taken without consent, or simply encountered incompetent but legal owners.

If you claim the title was lost and you only have a bill of sale from who you purchased it from, they can put it into the system as a new entry after a search of that VIN and the stolen vehicle listings in their system come back negative.

Think about it,  if your bike is stolen along with the pink that you happened to have stored in the bike, and some years later is sold to someone else with a bill of sale from someone other than the legal owner of record, you would want DMV to accept this and give ownership to the newest "buyer"?  There isn't even a chain of custody, let alone a continuous chain of legal owners in the eyes of the state.  What is there to indicate that the seller on the bill of sale has any right to sell the property?  All that does legally is show you had a good faith intent.  If the vehicle is indeed on the stolen vehicle list, that BOS will get you out of criminal charges, but the vehicle will be impounded, and any money recovery will have to be through the court system via suing the illegal seller.

If the pink is unsigned, it is already technically an illegal transfer of ownership.  Bring that to their attention, and you are asking for trouble, imo.

Many of the transfer laws were created to stem the trafficking of stolen vehicles.  How is the current proposed transfer any different?
Might be that the value of the bike is so low, they will look the other way if in doubt.  However, if you show them documentation that the legal owner has no representation in the current transfer, how is that NOT asking for trouble?
Best to plead stupid and hope DMV has not kept records of the bike's legal owner.  Otherwise, a lien sale may be the only way to obtain title to the vehicle without owner of record written consent.

Legally, the deal looks shady to me.  I would hope that DMV would take a similar view to keep criminal vehicle thievery suppressed.  But, there is no requirement that DMV persons be competent, or have any diligence.  But, I've certainly encountered some that did feel doing the job correctly was important.

Good luck!

[tomkimberly]

You write up a good story of what might or could happen but in real life, things are much different.

If your're dumb enought to store the pink slip with the bike and both turn up missing, you deserve to lose them.

As for real life, I serriously doubt none of what you propose ever happens. How come you see only the bad and none of the good? There is no point to be made here other than the info you have provided in this thread is bad and does not reflect what happends in real life.

Tom

[Acbrooks2]

I have to say, TwoTired's comments put the fear of God into me! The old boy I bought this bike from is totally legit and restores bikes for a living. He didnt seem too concerned. However I do want to do things by the book and at minimum expense. Maybe the bike was registered non-op and that was the bit that has been lost, i dunno. I am pretty certain that nothing is sinister here though and who is going to give a rats ass about a bike for sub $1000?

[TwoTired]

I went through something similar with a CB550.  The bike was reportedly "abandoned" by a guy "A" or Al who owed another guy "B" or Bud, money.  When neighbor Al disappeared, Bud moved the bike into his garage, as unvolunteered collateral.  Months passed without word from Al.  Bud tried to sell the bike to me to recoup his "loan".  Checking with DMV, I was told I could not transfer the bike to my name with a bill of sale, as neither I nor the seller was the legal owner.  The seller could obtain the right to a lien sale, to recoup "storage costs".  Notice had to be sent to the legal owner, essentially requiring a pay up or quit response.  I told him I would buy it for an agreed price (either $200 or $300, I forget which) if and only if I had clear ability to own it legally.  I think it took 90 days (not certain about that) without an owner claim response, and Bud was allowed to gain legal ownership and sell the bike to me legally.  He called me, the papers were in order and he had clear legal title to the property.  I paid him for the DMV fees he incurred plus the agreed price and I trucked it home.  No hassle at all from DMV when transferring it to my name.  A lien sale IS excluded from late fees.  But, you must pay for title transfer and registration fees.

The bike didn't run was a "rescue", needing a lot of parts and work to make it decently streetable and reliable.  Below it what it finally looked like just before I sold it.  I didn't make any profit on the bike.   But, I lose money on my hobbies routinely.

Maybe you can find a lax DMV person to overlook the legal ownership detail.  I would hope not.   But, I wouldn't even buy a bike without the legal owner's consent.  In fact, I passed on a 76 CB750F when the seller couldn't produce the title he promised to have in his possession.  We had it on my truck and money ready to trade for the signed over title that was promised.  The story on that one was that someone knew he was into Japanese motorcycles and left it in his driveway as a donation (He was chair of the local VJMC).  He couldn't find the tittle so it came off the tuck and back into his yard.  I told him to call me when he obtained a transferable title, and I never got the call.  I think the bike got broken up and sold as parts.  Shame, as it was a whole bike only missing a few cosmetic pieces.   But, DMV is not very cooperative in my area.

Good luck!

[Acbrooks2]

what if i just fill in the forms on the title on behalf of the owner listed and send it in? I dont want to go that route, but might save a ton of hassle if they simply process it.

[TwoTired]

If your're dumb enought to store the pink slip with the bike and both turn up missing, you deserve to lose them.

Isn't that the grifter's credo?    If your moral compass justifies stealing from the stupid, you'll do well in a capitalist's society.

[TwoTired]

what if i just fill in the forms on the title on behalf of the owner listed and send it in? I dont want to go that route, but might save a ton of hassle if they simply process it.

Technically, that's forgery.  Some believe it is only illegal if you get caught and accept such risks routinely.

To protect yourself legally, and assuming you have already taken possession of the vehicle, you should have a Bill of Sale signed by the seller, including his CDL # so he can be held liable should the bike actually be stolen, rather than you.

IF the bike's VIN is not listed in the stolen vehicle database, and IF the bike's legal ownership data has fallen off the records retention, a CHP vehicle verification inspection and form completion, along with a bill of sale, should get you clear ownership of the bike.  You'll have to buy new plates, pay for title issuance and registration fees, and then the bike is legally yours without any late or penalty fees, as the process is the same as bringing a vehicle in from out of state.

Why is it you can't get the owner on the title to sign the release info?  You have the name and address.  Did you try to contact him?

Good luck!

[Duke McDukiedook]

AC, take TT's advice if you want to cover all bases, he is covering the worst case scenario, Tom is covering the rosy DMV experience which I have yet to experience.

Cover ALL THE BASES, get the pink signed and dated along with the BOS from the seller.

[Acbrooks2]

AC, take TT's advice if you want to cover all bases, he is covering the worst case scenario, Tom is covering the rosy DMV experience which I have yet to experience.

Cover ALL THE BASES, get the pink signed and dated along with the BOS from the seller.

I hadn't thought of contacting the seller on the pink! might be a good idea as long as he is still local!

[tomkimberly]

AC, take TT's advice if you want to cover all bases, he is covering the worst case scenario, Tom is covering the rosy DMV experience which I have yet to experience.

Cover ALL THE BASES, get the pink signed and dated along with the BOS from the seller.

Dude!  I always get the VIP treatment at the DMV.   

AC, I'm in southern California (City of Orange), if you need help and I'm local to you, PM me so we can hook up and go through this one on one.

Tom

[Acbrooks2]

Thanks Tom. I am actually up in SF but will let you know my progress as might need some more advice!

[camelman]

Acbrooks,

I've been through this a lot lately. I recommend getting an inspection done prior to visiting the DMV. Otherwise, the SF DMV will not help you. We can chat offline if you want the particulars, but that is the case. So, get your CHP inspection done, call the DMV office to find out what all paperwork you need, have your buddy you bought it from fill it out with you, and throw away the old pink. You'll get a new one without hassle, and you will not have to deal with the original title mess.

Now, regarding past late fees, yes..,you are liable if they occurred within the last seven years. They get pricey too, especially on a new Triumph Sprint (argh)!  There is a way around those costs though. You can register the vehicle as non-op, and wait for a month before registering it for a license. The past due fees will be waived, and you'll be on your merry way.

If you want to ask me any questions, then PM me your phone number. I'm without Internet at home and hate typing on my iPhone.