Author Topic: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story  (Read 4402 times)

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Offline Mainerider

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Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« on: April 15, 2012, 06:15:05 AM »
I know a lot of people have wondered why a lot of shops won't touch older bikes; some comments/criticisms have been valid but my recent experience leads me to now defend the dealers in many cases.  Some background...

I have a normal 9-5 shirt and tie job but I also do mc service work out of my home garage on some nights and weekends; I have a good setup with a real lift (1,500 lb. capacity), large compressor and a full set of mc-specific tools.  I also have a friend who opened a multi-line dealership a year ago; He asked me to help out on weekends when I have time so I go in and do state inspections, oil changes, tire changing/balancing, general repairs, etc.

This shop started out accepting all bikes regardless of age/condition but they are already tightening up that policy, for several reasons.  Here are some real-world examples of what they have experienced....

A 1940s era BMW that came in to the shop in November; They figured it would be a good way to fill some slow winter months shop time. It's still tying up a lift today as it sits disassembled and waiting on fruitless parts searches.  The tech says he has countless hours online searching for parts; hours he can't charge the owner so the bike is a huge loss for the shop.  First and last extensive "restore" they will take on...

Three "vintage" bikes sit out in the bullpen; all three are "abandoned by owner" because the shop agreed to work on them.  After the techs spent a lot of time working on them the owners decided the bikes weren't worth the repair costs and stiffed the shop on the bills.  More big losses.

Even when the customers are willing to pay for the shop time, it's still a major hassle for a shop to tear apart an old bike, find the problem, then not be able to get the part(s) needed; they can't have a lift tied up for days or weeks on end with a torn down bike while the tech scours ebay looking for used parts and waiting for auctions to end to see if they got the winning bid. They had that scenario recently on a KZ440 that had critical and unavailable carb pieces missing (thanks to someone  previously "rebuilding" the carbs themselves and leaving pieces out).  Another time black hole for the tech and shop...

Another reason new vehicle shops generally don't want to service old bikes with lots of problems (especially bikes that have been butchered to death by the owner or someone else and now want the shop to sort out their wiring bird's nest , messed-up carbs etc.): It is unfair to the other customers.  Shops are very busy at times and it isn't fair to tell 5 or 6 other customers that we can't change their oil or mount and balance their new tires or inspect their bikes or install their fork seals, etc. today because one tech  will be tied up all 8 hours trying to figure out one person's complete mechanical mess.  New vehicle dealers organically create many service customers simply by selling them bikes; the dealer's first responsibility has to be taking care of these customers first.

My friend started out with the intention of cheerfully servicing everything on 2 wheels but reality has hit home; there is only so much shop time available and it must be allocated efficiently. That's not to say they won't do clearly defined service on older bikes, such as fork seals, oil and filter, tuneups, etc., but I now understand why a lot of shops (especially new vehicle dealerships) avoid extensive "vintage" work, especially during the busy season.  Just my observations...




Offline cmonSTART

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 06:25:21 AM »
You're absolutely right, Mainerider.  I worked for a large NH tractor dealership for quite a while among other places.  We had a policy of turning away older machines simply because of the economic reality that an owner doesn't want to spend two grand on a $1,000 machine to have it repaired.  Even if he does want to, he will still have an old machine which will probably break soon and he'll blame it on the dealer.  (They always do!). 

Also, like you said, nuts and bolts are rusted on, the wiring is crap.  Usually these things just aren't economically worth it for the dealer or customer. 

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Offline Bailgang

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 06:43:34 AM »
I have a nephew that is in charge of the repair shop at a Honda MC dealership and his shop does accept older bikes but only to a certain extent. They have no problems with basic tune ups but they'll turn away an older bike that has major issues like those mentioned above and for the same reasons.
Scott


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Offline thrutheframe

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 06:51:10 AM »
  Makes me wanna start a vintage bike shop....

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Offline DavePhipps

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 06:54:31 AM »
My local shop requires a 50% deposit on bikes over 10 years old.
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Offline MoMo

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 07:11:55 AM »
My local shop requires a 50% deposit on bikes over 10 years old.




As well as they should, and it also should be non-refunabe if the owner abandons the bike.  I do repairs but only for people I know or who are recommended or I screen carefully...Larry
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 02:16:36 PM by MoMo »

Offline DavePhipps

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 07:56:31 AM »
My local shop requires a 50% deposit on bikes over 10 years old.




As well as they should, and it also should be non-refunabe if the owner abandons the bike.  I do repairs but only for people I now or who are recommended or I screen carefully...Larry

It is a good deterrent for the goobers out there.
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DH

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 08:26:58 AM »
I work at an automotive repair facility and the principles are
exactly the same. Specialty shops are a necessity in such cases.
Vehicle owners need to understand that too. I recently had a
1970 cadillac with automatic climate control problems come in.
What a nightmare. And on top fo it all, I've maybe worked on 2
in my entire 35 years of automotive experience. Point is that in
a lot of cases, be it bikes or whatever, no matter what, you can't polish a turd. I know thats a little harsh, but the truth sucks sometimes. I can appreciate what you guys are sayn'...

Offline DavePhipps

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 08:46:24 AM »
Frankly, without this site there would be a lot fewer SOHC4 bikes on the road. While our barn finds would create a nightmare in a shop, They become projects here. With the support of this community a lot of bikes return to the road. Good job guys!

BTW.
I completely understand the shops point of view, and agree with them.
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Offline Johnie

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 08:46:42 AM »
My local dealer sent me some referrals of guys who want someone to work on their old Honda's. The dealer will only do limited work on them. I really do not like to work on someone elses bike because they usually have a very high expectation that the bike will run like brand new when they get it back. It is just not worth the hassle.
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 11:35:27 AM »
No one is trained to work on the old bikes. Way too many to learn on the fly. 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Eydugstr

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2012, 01:10:38 PM »
It's sad but true.  Don't blame the shop or the mechanic one bit for being aggraviated.  And if someone decides they don't like the quote, and abandons it...Slap a mechanics lien on it, and sell it for whatever you can.

I think a big part of the solution is really just parts supply.  Sometimes the vintage bike market looks a little small to the CEO's out there - but there IS a market.  It's definitely a lot better now than it was 15-20 years ago, because of the internet.

Offline tomkimberly

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 01:10:51 PM »
As a "pivate repair consultant" I'll gladly show you how to do perfrom most any task on your bike. I will not work on or fix anything withut your direct involvment. If during the course of repair it is discovered additional parts are needed, you as the owner are required to remove your bike from my repair shop (if brought over to my place) and we can commence work just as soon as you can have the required parts on-hand. BTW, 99 percent of the time the work will be done at your place, not mine.

The best part of the deal, I work for free, and no amount of money wil allow you to bring a bike to my house to work on it here. It just is not going to happen.

Tom


Offline Blueridgerunner

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2012, 01:52:46 PM »
All good reasons, and all the more reason to get a manual, research online and do the work yourself. If you lack the time and/or ability then buy something that you can get repaired. I have taken a bike to a shop and ended up telling them how to repair it. Not their fault but not worth it to me.
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Offline dhall57

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2012, 02:36:27 PM »
I work at a Chrysler-Dodge dealership. A retired former employee for some reason brought in his 1976 GMC motorhome to have some, well what he thought would be basic maintenance work performed. What a nightmare! Still trying to fine parts for it 3 weeks later :( So I understand where the mc shops are coming from as far as working on 35 year bikes.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 02:38:55 PM by dhall57 »
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 03:44:18 PM »
Whilst i understand what the original poster is saying i have to put some blame on the mechanic in this instance. Working on an old bike without any prior knowledge of parts availability or knowing the nuances of the machine is fraught with danger as he has experienced. I don't know about you guys but before i plan on buying anything old, being a car or bike or anything mechanical, i do some research first and see what my chances are of getting what is needed to do the fix, more than once i have abandoned a proposed project based on this method...  Yes, i get called "anal retentive" a lot but its better than being out of pocket in circumstances like these mentioned here...
A little research goes a long way.... ;)
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Offline Bailgang

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2012, 03:09:16 PM »
Whilst i understand what the original poster is saying i have to put some blame on the mechanic in this instance. Working on an old bike without any prior knowledge of parts availability or knowing the nuances of the machine is fraught with danger as he has experienced. I don't know about you guys but before i plan on buying anything old, being a car or bike or anything mechanical, i do some research first and see what my chances are of getting what is needed to do the fix, more than once i have abandoned a proposed project based on this method...  Yes, i get called "anal retentive" a lot but its better than being out of pocket in circumstances like these mentioned here...
A little research goes a long way.... ;)

I can relate to that a bit because had I known then what I know now about my youngest sons previous 85 vf500 interceptor, he never would've bought the bike in the first place. It was actually a sweet bike but near impossible to find new parts for but of course we didn't find that out until after he bought it. My 71 cb175 is a breeze to find parts for compared to that first gen v4.
Scott


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77 cb750 F2
83 gl1100 Interstate

Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2012, 03:45:49 PM »
You also have to relize if the bike you're working on is 30+ years old how many hands have WORKED on it and God only knows what has been changed prior to you touching it. I was once asked to worked on  someones CB900C to GET IT RUNNING, Well after flushing the tank and cleaning the carbs a 1/2 dozen times, I did get it to RUN for a short time till all the juice was pulled from the Battery, T/S the system and told the old man he had a bad stator, He didn't want to hear that cause it runs great for about 15 minutes. He then took it to another Mech and he told him the carbs on it was not what belonged on it (BFD) I didn't even touch them except to clean what was there and they tried to say I stole his carbs.. Now if I work on anybodies bike I have them sign a contract of cost and have them MARK removable parts with Magic Marker with their mark, so they can't come back and say YOU STOLE MY CARBS


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2012, 05:37:45 AM »
My daily driver is jeep cj7 from 86 with retrofitted FI from 4.3 GMC. The only time it sees a pro shop is yearly inspection.  It just makes no sense to take my baby to some grease monkey. It is hard enough to shop for parts in local stores - you know the sequence of questions: what year is your vehicle, LOL.
I worked in custom Corvettes shop for almost a year and I dont trust many mechanics since, they work on your vehicle just like any others.  When you work on your own, you are much more committed.
But back to the original thread, I totally understand where is it coming from. Old cars and bikes just cant be treated and fixed as easy as newer ones and the shop has to make money.
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Offline 754

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2012, 07:56:32 AM »
 This forum goes a long ways to promote and teach self-help..

 Too bad there are a few "unteachables"... and "hardtoteachables"...

 ..Oh well, you cant train them all...
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Offline mono

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2012, 12:01:26 PM »
Frankly, without this site there would be a lot fewer SOHC4 bikes on the road. While our barn finds would create a nightmare in a shop, They become projects here. With the support of this community a lot of bikes return to the road. Good job guys!


undeniably true.  i'm not sure that I would have been willing to take on my project without having the vast knowledge-base that everyone on this forum provides.  thanks again, all !

awww, now i feel all warm and fuzzy inside.   must be the booze kickin' in.  ;)

Offline Bailgang

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2012, 03:31:50 PM »
Frankly, without this site there would be a lot fewer SOHC4 bikes on the road. While our barn finds would create a nightmare in a shop, They become projects here. With the support of this community a lot of bikes return to the road. Good job guys!

No doubts on that. I primarily go to two MC sites, this 1 and a cbr forum for my youngest son's cbr600. They key diff between the 2 sites is that on this site most of you actually know what you're talking about and the "been there done that" knowledge base is immense. The cbr site on the other hand though there may be a few that are pretty sharp, the majority are lucky if they know how to sync the carbs on their bikes.
Scott


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77 cb750 F2
83 gl1100 Interstate

Offline tomkimberly

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2012, 09:53:23 PM »
This forum goes a long ways to promote and teach self-help..

 Too bad there are a few "unteachables"... and "hardtoteachables"...

 ..Oh well, you cant train them all...

+1, ths is the reason I frequent this forum, to help others out and to learn a few things too.

Tom


Offline demon78

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2012, 03:43:05 AM »
I understand what all of you are saying but I tend to agree with RR, the shop and the mechanic have a duty, to have a clue about how to do the job before they start, otherwise the job or the bike, whatever should be turned down and the shop should have links to repair facilities that can do it ( Why do you go to a shop in the first place? For expertise of course and if they don't have that it should be admitted, there is way too much cherry picking going on ) if they are to new to have not yet developed the links, their problem, the other thing is that the shop manager could or should simply say that policy requires approval and payment every step of the way, with a time frame for approval and payment if not the job in question will be sold to recover the shops losses, sign on the dotted line after reading the work order.
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Offline thrutheframe

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Re: Dealers and Old bikes-the real story
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2012, 08:56:19 AM »
 This forum is like Honda University, some get a degree, others just hang around and party.  Speaking of which I was standing in line at the coffee place this morning and thought it would be cool to make up some T-shirts that say HONDA University like the retro shirts that you see all the "clothing designers" making now,
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