Author Topic: Still Oil Leakin' - 1977 CB 550 (Read 4490 times)

cabrala · « **on:** April 22, 2012, 08:23:29 AM »

Hey Guys,

After a fairly mild winter and a few days of chilly, but nice riding in New England, I finally took the time to track a pesky oil leak. I did the powder trick and sure enough it looked like my oil pan o-ring was the culprit. Pretty easy job when it was all said and done, but after riding I noticed some fresh oil still dripping down off the backside of the pan. I had some thoughts earlier that this problem could be starting from a bit higher with gravity allowing for the drips I can see, but I am not sure what else there could be on the rear of the engine that would produce a leak...

After talking with a friend, he said it could be a sprocket bushing that dried out over time and is therefore causing oil to come out of the rear of the sprocket cover and down the pan. I questioned whether this was a common problem and whether the sprocket was press-fit, both which he wasn't sure about. So, I humbly turn to you all as the weather brightens up and hope for some insight.

Best,
Alex

P.S. The leak isn't very bad in quantity of lost oil, but I do occasionally notice it on the back tire, so I would like to get a handle on it from a safety point of view. Also, I am a novice learning the ropes, so please do not be afraid to include even the most basic information.

cabrala · « **Reply #1 on:** April 22, 2012, 08:24:57 AM »

Another possibility of a leak location?

cabrala · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2012, 08:25:51 AM »

And finally, just to show how pretty she looks after a good cleaning and some nice weather...

crazypj · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2012, 08:35:29 AM »

Check oil pump 'O' rings and pressure switch.
What oil are you using?

cabrala · « **Reply #4 on:** April 22, 2012, 08:44:54 AM »

So I am following some recommendations from a Hondaman post and running Castrol 20W-50.

Greggo · « **Reply #5 on:** April 22, 2012, 08:47:49 AM »

It's easy enough to pull that front sprocket cover off...have you checked under there? That's where you'll find the oil pump, and a few oil seals that could be causing the leak.

cabrala · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2012, 09:04:29 AM »

Gregg

I haven't pulled the cover off yet due to the previous owner stripping a few of the screws holding it in place. I will make sure to look there first as it seems likely the source could be within.

By the way, I don't know if you ever got my messages about the carbs. They worked out great for what I needed, so much appreciated.

crazypj · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2012, 04:56:24 PM »

20w/50 is a real bad idea unless it's really hot where you are?
I blew the tops off 3 switches in less than a year using Castrol 20W/50 (well, that may be a bit dramatic but they did leak severely)
The oil pressure switch is directly mounted to pump on 550 (and350/ 400f)
I believe the pressure relief valve can't flow enough when oil is cold?
Now, I run 5W/40 full synthetics in everything (with small amount of ZDDP added)

Greggo · « **Reply #8 on:** April 22, 2012, 05:08:24 PM »

Quote from: cabrala on April 22, 2012, 09:04:29 AM

Gregg

I haven't pulled the cover off yet due to the previous owner stripping a few of the screws holding it in place. I will make sure to look there first as it seems likely the source could be within.

By the way, I don't know if you ever got my messages about the carbs. They worked out great for what I needed, so much appreciated.

Glad to hear that! Good luck with the leak. BTW, I use 20w50, but I live in temperate California

cabrala · « **Reply #9 on:** April 22, 2012, 07:01:20 PM »

As far as the oil goes, I really based my choice off of nothing more than the recommendation of Hondaman. I did read through that post as well as others arguing their points on oils, but it never brought me closer to a definitive answer so I went with the 20W/50. To speak briefly about my location, I am close to Cape Cod in Massachusetts, therefore not immune to the traditional roller coaster weather patterns of New England. There can be blistering heat one day and blustery cold then next. Should I be considering a drop back down to 10W/40?

On to the opening of the sprocket cover. I got home from work a short while ago and hopped right to it. My gut is telling me that it is a good chance the source is coming from within, but I honestly don't have much clue as to what I am looking at, specifically where/how to access o-rings. I have attached some pictures for your viewing pleasure and potential assistance in diagnoses.

CoachDoc · « **Reply #10 on:** April 22, 2012, 09:47:38 PM »

Unless you ride in very cold weather (<35 degrees) you should be fine with 20W-50. I used it for years and never had a problem. I like the higher viscosity on the top end because these air cooled engines can get VERY hot at times. I think your engine will actually last longer with the 20W-50.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #11 on:** April 22, 2012, 09:55:46 PM »

The bolt you have indicated is an oil gallery, a fair candidate for leakage. Your oil pump looks dry but what is that orange stuff? I see that there is a bit of wear where the chain is/has rubbed in front of the sprocket. Are you using an O-ring chain? It is recommended to use a non O-ring as there isn't enough clearance for one. Give around that sprocket area a thorough cleaning to see if you can spot the leak.

dave500 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 22, 2012, 11:39:23 PM »

that orange stuff is old chain rust,and the other orange stuff on the pump is some kind of sealant,i wonder if its leaked there before and been cleverly gooed?if you recently oiled the chain a fair bit can flick around in that cover and trickle down the gear shift shaft etc,start it up with the cover of and check the pump dosent leak at that goo.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2012, 11:43:37 PM »

Orange around the oil pump itself. It looks like it has been off as there are allen screws in there.

dave500 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 22, 2012, 11:51:32 PM »

yeah the cover has goo,and worn looking jis(phillips),there should be an o ring only behind the cover plate,goo is a bit wrong?

cabrala · « **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2012, 05:08:30 AM »

The previous posts have echoed my thoughts exactly. When I pulled off the cover and saw the gasket sealant (sloppily) applied, I immediately told my father it didn't look right, especially with the worn screw heads. He mentioned how clean it was in comparison to the rest of the innards and that I shouldn't take that apart just yet. Nonetheless I am still questioning the PO's quick fix and might just do it for the sake of doing it right.

To respond to the comment of chain type, I honestly have no idea what it is running. Is there a way to identify an o-ring chain and does anybody have a preferred source for non o-ring chains? Also as far as sprocket wear goes, what am I looking for? It definitely looked old, but am I looking for spots where it is rubbing or grinding down?

My plan for now is to really clean the inside and run the bike without the cover on to try to identify something. After a quick look yesterday, I determined the oil gallery bolt has a newish o-ring and is seated quite snug, so my thoughts are that it is not the bigger issue for me right now...

crazypj · « **Reply #16 on:** April 23, 2012, 06:20:32 AM »

It's really clean because the oil leak is washing any dirt off.
Pump is in a pretty well protected housing.
Start bike with cover off, if its the pressure switch you'll see leak.
There are 'O' rings under pump to crankcase joint.
First thing to do is get pump off, strip it and check for damage, silicon does nasty things to the top end of engine if it gets through pump

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #17 on:** April 23, 2012, 06:43:59 AM »

Re the chain. You can easily see the rubber O-rings between the chain plates.

Greggo · « **Reply #18 on:** April 23, 2012, 08:02:43 AM »

The 'chain wear' being referred to is not on the sprocket, or the chain itself, but wear from the chain rubbing against your engine. The black plug in both the last pics you posted shouldn't have that crescent groove worn into it. O-ring chains are too wide in 530 size for these 500/550 bikes. If you're going with a new chain, I'd suggest new sprockets too - worn sprockets will wear out a new chain faster, and vise versa.

cabrala · « **Reply #19 on:** April 23, 2012, 08:17:10 AM »

PJ, what I take away from your post is that the silicone should be removed regardless of whether or not the leak is sourced there?

Gregg, I am going to look for a 530 non o-ring chain as well as two new sprockets.

Does anyone have a particular favorite...Z1, BikeBandit, etc? I have used TAS in the past but with varying degrees of success. I appreciate the help to. I'll be sure to keep asking questions.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #20 on:** April 23, 2012, 08:20:27 AM »

Yes clean the silicone as you don't know how careful the PO has been.

Greggo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 23, 2012, 09:20:30 AM »

I've bought a couple chains from ebay seller 'allformoto'. I'm not sure how many links you need for your stock 550 chain/sprocket combo.

cabrala · « **Reply #22 on:** April 23, 2012, 10:30:13 AM »

From the research I have done, it looks like I will need 100 links. My thoughts are that I might go with a 17/39 setup, which is increasing my stock rear sprocket by two teeth. If that is the case I might try to find a 102-105 link chain and allow myself the ability to size it. Unless I am told otherwise that the two extra teeth won't make a difference in linkage...

More importantly is the rubber seal my chain seems to have started to cut into. Is this something to be replaced as well? It doesn't seem like it is in that bad of shape, but is it one of those "while it's open you might as well" kind of things?

Greggo · « **Reply #23 on:** April 23, 2012, 10:37:12 AM »

Quote from: cabrala on April 23, 2012, 10:30:13 AM

From the research I have done, it looks like I will need 100 links. My thoughts are that I might go with a 17/39 setup, which is increasing my stock rear sprocket by two teeth. If that is the case I might try to find a 102-105 link chain and allow myself the ability to size it. Unless I am told otherwise that the two extra teeth won't make a difference in linkage...

If you have the tools to cut the chain, buy longer, test fit, then cut to your desired length, keeping proper chain tension in mind.

Quote from: cabrala on April 23, 2012, 10:30:13 AM

More importantly is the rubber seal my chain seems to have started to cut into. Is this something to be replaced as well? It doesn't seem like it is in that bad of shape, but is it one of those "while it's open you might as well" kind of things?

If it hasn't eaten so much that it's leaking, then I'd leave it. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that one's easy to replace...someone in the know will chime in on that hopefully. If it ain't broke, and it's covered by a cover, I'd leave it.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #24 on:** April 23, 2012, 10:46:49 AM »

Unless it's leaking leave it. Standard chain is 100 links. If you go bigger sprockets you will need more links.

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Author Topic: Still Oil Leakin' - 1977 CB 550 (Read 4490 times)