Topic: Re: Oil pan plug, hand-tighten or correct torque? NEW: oil pan bolts, same ques?

[Mercutiojb]

 A few questions..

Just changed the oil on my 77 supersport.  Went to tighten the crankcase oil plug (to the correct torque), and I believe I may have busted the threads in the pan.  The plug seems to thread in and out just fine, but never really 'tightens'.  It gets all the way to the pan, then just sort of... spins.  If I were to keep spinning it, it seems to get harder, then easier, depending on how far around it is spun.

So, it looks like I'll need a new pan? (anyone have one for cheap?) 

My question is, should I not attempt to use the correct torque setting? Should I just do hand tight plus a little extra? I've seen both recommendations in other threads here, but I'm not sure. 

Also, can something like a lock washer be used in addition to the crush washer to keep the bolt from coming out?

Follow-up question - I've heard some people have found the crush washers for much cheaper at fastener stores.  What size would I need, and what should I be asking for?

[mono]

from scouring the forums i have seen a number of posts about people putting the correct torque on something only to have it break.  i'm interested in the answers on this also.

when i changed my oil last summer after getting my bike, i tightened it by hand until it was tight, then gave it an extra nudge.  didn't leak a drop.  that said, maybe i just got lucky and that was the right torque amount. *shrug*

[LesterPiglet]

I use hand torque only, I've stripped too many threads on my bike. I think 35 years of undoing and redoing bolts is going to weaken something.

[MCRider]

I thought I posted here a moment ago, but it didn't take so here it is again.

My chart say 25 to 28 ft lbs on a drain bolt! No Way!

I have a code about crushables: like drain plugs, spark plugs, oil filter bolts, tappet covers, etc, with crushable washers: hand tighten then a good umph with a 6 inch wrench, you should feel the washer give, then STOP!  If it leaks, tighten a bit more till it stops.

You may find a self tapping drain plug from auto store. They use them when they strip a car oil pan.

You may remove your pan and repair the thread.

You can get crushable drain washers anywhere, just use metric so they fit nice. I buy from OEM, 10 at a time. Use a new one each time. The one in question is 12mm. At $1.48 you can do better, though that wouldn't stop me. Just look around for a different application that uses 12mm crush washer.

[2wheels]

Hand tight , use a 3/8 drive ratchet . Which normally have a short handle.

I stipped mine last year doing the same as you. 
I found a 14 mm thread plug.  Then had a local guy drill and tap the hole for my new plug.  Worked fine.   Cost 10 dollars total.
I did buy a new pan gasket but did not need it.

[MCRider]

This is a little better:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&tok=KeVSysPMViUM_fwx9Oi9DQ&ds=pr&pq=drain+plug+washers&cp=15&gs_id=1o&xhr=t&q=motorcycle+oil+drain+plug+washers&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS458&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1344&bih=710&wrapid=tljp1335805328467228&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8203990796075502654&sa=X&ei=r8WeT5SxKJPygge45fz3Dg&sqi=2&ved=0CIwBEPMCMAQ#

[Hinomaru]

Besides stripping the threads in the oil pan, over-torqueing the drain bolt can also cause a cracked pan.

This always results in a undesirable oil leak.

[Mercutiojb]

I'm wondering if it's not cracked as well.  I hate to have to pull the pan, but if I have to, I have to.

It seems odd though, or maybe I've just never seen this before.  I've never seen a bolt that threaded in and out correctly, but just didn't tighten.  It seems to be holding at the moment, but I fear that vibration will shake it loose so I'm guessing the bike will be un-ridable until it's fixed?

[Mercutiojb]

Thanks for this, but don't I need a washer with a 12mm I.D. instead of 10mm?

This is a little better:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&tok=KeVSysPMViUM_fwx9Oi9DQ&ds=pr&pq=drain+plug+washers&cp=15&gs_id=1o&xhr=t&q=motorcycle+oil+drain+plug+washers&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS458&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1344&bih=710&wrapid=tljp1335805328467228&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8203990796075502654&sa=X&ei=r8WeT5SxKJPygge45fz3Dg&sqi=2&ved=0CIwBEPMCMAQ#

[Dimitri13]

I stripped mine torquing it to.. 14ft/lbs or something. Tried replacing it with an oversized drain plug, only to have that not work well. I ended up replacing the oil pan for like $25 shipped from ebay. The best thing was that it had no chipped fins (mine had a small chip), and it was in overall better condition.

[LesterPiglet]

I'm wondering if it's not cracked as well.  I hate to have to pull the pan, but if I have to, I have to.

It seems odd though, or maybe I've just never seen this before.  I've never seen a bolt that threaded in and out correctly, but just didn't tighten.  It seems to be holding at the moment, but I fear that vibration will shake it loose so I'm guessing the bike will be un-ridable until it's fixed?

Cheap as I am, I would epoxy it until you get a permanent fix arranged.

[Duke McDukiedook]

hand tighten.

[Mercutiojb]

I think I may end up doing just that!

I stripped mine torquing it to.. 14ft/lbs or something. Tried replacing it with an oversized drain plug, only to have that not work well. I ended up replacing the oil pan for like $25 shipped from ebay. The best thing was that it had no chipped fins (mine had a small chip), and it was in overall better condition.

[Mercutiojb]

As long as I can get the plug to stay in, I wouldn't mind!

I'm wondering if it's not cracked as well.  I hate to have to pull the pan, but if I have to, I have to.

It seems odd though, or maybe I've just never seen this before.  I've never seen a bolt that threaded in and out correctly, but just didn't tighten.  It seems to be holding at the moment, but I fear that vibration will shake it loose so I'm guessing the bike will be un-ridable until it's fixed?

Cheap as I am, I would epoxy it until you get a permanent fix arranged.

[LesterPiglet]

Clean it up, wrap some plumbers tape around the threads and epoxy it.

[Mercutiojb]

As in "you're never getting this bolt out again after you epoxy it in"?  Just want to make sure I'm not missing something 

Clean it up, wrap some plumbers tape around the threads and epoxy it.

[LesterPiglet]

Epoxy will easily chip off, I've done it before. I mean to epoxy around the area once the bolt is inserted.

[MCRider]

I'm wondering if it's not cracked as well.  I hate to have to pull the pan, but if I have to, I have to.

It seems odd though, or maybe I've just never seen this before.  I've never seen a bolt that threaded in and out correctly, but just didn't tighten.  It seems to be holding at the moment, but I fear that vibration will shake it loose so I'm guessing the bike will be un-ridable until it's fixed?

There is just enough thread left in the aluminum to fool you. But don't let it. It won't stay. I'll second my idea on the self threading repair drain bolt from auto land. They may not have one close enough to your size, but worth a phone call or trip if close.

[MCRider]

Like this: (scroll down)
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/common/repairInfoMain.jsp?targetPage=productsHowToInspect&leftNavPage=productsHowTo&pageId=%090996b43f80a011f7&subtitle=replace

[Mercutiojb]

I'll check this out first!

I'm wondering if it's not cracked as well.  I hate to have to pull the pan, but if I have to, I have to.

It seems odd though, or maybe I've just never seen this before.  I've never seen a bolt that threaded in and out correctly, but just didn't tighten.  It seems to be holding at the moment, but I fear that vibration will shake it loose so I'm guessing the bike will be un-ridable until it's fixed?

There is just enough thread left in the aluminum to fool you. But don't let it. It won't stay. I'll second my idea on the self threading repair drain bolt from auto land. They may not have one close enough to your size, but worth a phone call or trip if close.

[MCRider]

This discussion made me read up on self tapping plugs. Many threads from other motorsports forums, all with good feedback. Plug comes in .5 mm increments so you'd get a 12.5.

Some of them are piggy back. That is they have an actual but smaller drainplug in the center. So onceyou get the bigger portion in you never remove it. Just pull the center smaller plug to drain with.

Caution: I've never used these or known anyoone who has. i just know they are out thre.

[Mercutiojb]

Anyone have an idea on the original thread pitch of the plug?

[MCRider]

Anyone have an idea on the original thread pitch of the plug?

I will in a minute.

12mm x 1.5

[Mercutiojb]

Thanks for all the help MCRider!

Anyone have an idea on the original thread pitch of the plug?

I will in a minute.

12mm x 1.5

[lone*X]

The idea of a piggy back plug is a good one.  You would then have steel drain plug in steel threads.  Would not have to stress the aluminum pan anymore.  Sort of like doing a helicoil.