Author Topic: Plug wire splice questions - (Search not working) (Read 6347 times)

Chachi · « **on:** April 24, 2012, 02:07:00 PM »

Sorry to post this as I know it's been covered, but I can't seem to get the Search to work.

My plug wires function ok, but they look horrible. They are fully wrapped in electrical tape and are not routed properly as the two clips on the head to hold them in place are missing. I want to replace them. I know some have gone into the coil for a full wire replacement and others have spliced with NGK connectors. I feel more comfortable going with the splice connectors (lack of confidence going the other route).

That said, this is new territory for me and I want to make sure I know what I am doing. From what I can gather...

-Cut wires a few inches from coil
-Add NGK splice connectors
-Add new 7mm copper wire
-Add new NGK 5K resistor caps

Is that the general idea? Is this fairly idiot proof? Any other details or methods to consider other than going into the coil for a full wire replacement? Feel free to share any pics of properly routed plug wires and especially pics with NGK splice connectors.

Thanks for any info.

dave500 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2012, 02:15:06 PM »

itll be easy with the proper splice connectors,,ive just cut the head from a self tapping screw and used that as the splice with heat shrink over it.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2012, 02:43:58 PM »

+1 Dave.

Bailgang · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2012, 03:29:15 PM »

Quote from: dave500 on April 24, 2012, 02:15:06 PM

itll be easy with the proper splice connectors,,ive just cut the head from a self tapping screw and used that as the splice with heat shrink over it.

Sounded like a goofy idea at first but the more I think about it the more I like it. Pretty clever idea.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #4 on:** April 24, 2012, 03:40:23 PM »

I didn't have shrink wrap.

I Zombie · « **Reply #5 on:** April 25, 2012, 11:49:17 AM »

Quick question. If I use supression core wires (nonmetallic core) do you still need the resistor caps?

TwoTired · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2012, 12:04:41 PM »

Quote from: I Zombie on April 25, 2012, 11:49:17 AM

Quick question. If I use supression core wires (nonmetallic core) do you still need the resistor caps?

Depends on the resistance per foot rating of the suppression core wires. You need enough wire to equal about 5K resistance applied to each spark lead.

You also need to plan on replacing the wires periodically as the core of the wire degrades and resistance goes up.

Just remember the ignition system is more than just one component.
Spark plugs + wires + resistance + coils+ trigger system = whole coordinated ignition system. Changing any one thing can effect the system operation for better or worse depending on system interactions.

Cheers,

I Zombie · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2012, 01:16:50 PM »

thanks for the info TT

Chachi · « **Reply #8 on:** April 26, 2012, 10:52:34 AM »

Thanks for the replies. Any suggestions on where to get supplies? The best place online I've found so far is Dennis Kirk which offers 6' of 7mm (parts unlimited) plug wire. I have a local shop that may carry the items as well or can order. There are a few other vendors online that offer kits, but they seem to come with straight generic resistor caps vs. the angled NGK caps.

NGK XD05F are the resistor caps that are currently on the bike - are those the correct caps?

dave500 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 26, 2012, 12:34:48 PM »

the xd05f are fine.

Chachi · « **Reply #10 on:** April 26, 2012, 12:52:47 PM »

Thanks Dave.

CafeDawg · « **Reply #11 on:** April 26, 2012, 06:41:53 PM »

As others have pointed out (CycleRanger I think) you can use the Google search box at the top of page to find posts of your topic on here. Not quite as much fun. I like all the tangents that come up to the specific thing I'm looking for, always good to know things I didn't even know I needed to know if ya know what I mean. Hope the search is fixed soon.
Respect
CD

P.S. kewl the idea on the splice

Chachi · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2012, 06:55:50 PM »

Thanks for the search tip. I've never used that one, but works fine for now.

Chachi · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2012, 07:07:25 AM »

Would the stock set up have been angled caps on 1 and 4 and straight caps on 2 and 3 - or angled caps on all 4? I've got to order the resistor caps, so I figured I'd get it right.

(4) XD05F or
(2) XD05F and (2) SD05F

Duanob · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2012, 09:54:12 AM »

I have angled caps on 2/3 and straight on 1/4. You can get the copper core 7mm wire at NAPA for cheap. The caps and splicers online. Don't forget new plugs!

TwoTired · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2012, 01:17:27 PM »

The original plug caps for the CB500 AND CB550 were:
120 degree for Cyl 1&4, NGK = VD10F
102 degree for Cyl 2&3, NGK = XD10F

That's right, original plug caps were 10K Ohm.
5K Caps will "work" but is non-ideal for the original coils, and will cause them to run at higher temps due to increased currents, reducing longevity. Further, they will make the points wear faster, as the coils will exhibit deeper discharge, requiring more current through the points during recharge.
None of these actualities are quantified regarding temperature rise or point life reduction. So, it is difficult to say what the time or use impact is on the change in plug cap resistance.

However, if it becomes too difficult to locate 10K plug caps for your original coils, then you might consider also changing the spark plugs to include resistors. An NGK DR7EA plug would have 5K resistors built into them. And, when that resistance is added to the 5K plug caps, it restores the original design 10K resistance established for each spark lead.

Cheers,

Chachi · « **Reply #16 on:** April 27, 2012, 01:49:39 PM »

Thanks TwoTired. So no straight caps originally used?

If I am sticking with 5K plug caps:
1 & 4, 120 degree - NGK VD05F
2 & 3, 102 degree - NGK XD05F

The 120 degree on 1 & 4 turn back away from the front, correct? I ordered cylinder head clips today to hold new plug wires in correct routing position as mine are missing.

This is simple I know, but if anyone would be willing to share pics of stock plug wire routes I would be grateful.

Chachi · « **Reply #17 on:** April 27, 2012, 06:25:43 PM »

Hey TwoTired... I found an old post where you listed it the other way...

No complaints, but which way is it? I don't have the plug caps here yet to mess around with fitting. Thanks.

--

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=95040.0

Originally they were 10K. 5K will work. It just taxes the points and condenser more.
The inner 2&3 boots were different than the outer 1&4 boots,
This will give a breakdown of what the letters/numbers mean:
http://www.sudco.com/spark.html
1&4 were XD10F
2&3 were VD10F

dave500 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 27, 2012, 06:34:49 PM »

i just use four XD5OF

TwoTired · « **Reply #19 on:** April 27, 2012, 07:06:29 PM »

So, I went out and looked at my bikes.

The X boots have a longer reach (70mm) than the V types (42.5mm). And the position asignments change with the year and wire routing style, which changed in 1977.

For the 500s and 550s up through 76, the wires routed on top of the cam cover and there was a wire clip on the right side forcing the wire to run forward toward the spark plug cap. This routing style needed the long X caps at the 1&4 positions, and the shorter V caps were used in the 2&3 positions.

In 1977 (and 78) the wire routing did not have a clamp on top of the engine cover. All the wires routed to the cap via a front to rear approach. These models used the V caps in the 1&4 positions, and the longer X caps went in positions 2&3.

I can tell you that pulling the short caps from 2&3 while the engine is hot can be more painful that pulling the long caps from 2&3. Clearly they will "work" either way. Kinda depends on what "historically accurate" means to you.

So, I didn't lie. I probably just looked at a different bike for the other post.

Cheers,

Deltarider · « **Reply #20 on:** April 27, 2012, 11:56:04 PM »

A known reliable source (like a genuine Honda document) that the 500/550 series standard had 10KΩ resistance in each plugcap has yet to be found. Maybe Bryanj remembers from practice. Studying the various Parts Lists doesn't help us. We see some models use resistor plugs and then have different caps than other models. But as long as we don't know what that difference is (the resistance of the caps is not specified), we know nothing. I remember - early 80s - that I discovered some of my plugcaps read around 5KΩ and some near 10KΩ. I consulted a technical advisor of Honda Netherlands, the person dealers turn to if they have a problem and he advised me to have them all 5KΩ. I can't say he was right or wrong, neither can I recall which caps read 5KΩ and 10KΩ respectively. Maybe that cap had deteriorated and so came near 10KΩ. This can happen. The opposite can not. I never opened a genuine cap to remove the resistor, like you can do with NGK's, to see if they had something written on them. In those days I wasn't curious enough. Mystery remains to be solved.

dave500 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 27, 2012, 11:59:31 PM »

service manuals also show spark plug sand blasters,,sheesh!

Chachi · « **Reply #22 on:** April 28, 2012, 05:52:27 AM »

Thanks for all of the info, seriously.

Chachi · « **Reply #23 on:** May 07, 2012, 08:50:05 AM »

I re-did my plug wires with the NGK splice connectors, new wire and new resistor caps. I went with the XD05F and VD05F caps. I used to get a fair amount of mild backfire on de-acceleration and now I don't seem to get that. I think one or more of my old caps had bad connections or possibly that is the nature of a 4-2 vs. stock 4-4 exhaust?

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Author Topic: Plug wire splice questions - (Search not working) (Read 6347 times)