Author Topic: So my chain is stretched ....  (Read 4371 times)

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Offline iron_worker

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So my chain is stretched ....
« on: May 10, 2012, 07:45:11 AM »
Well yesterday evening I got a bit of maintenance work done on the old girl (1974 CB750 K4). Here is what I accomplished:

-Air filter replaced (I hate the stock air box ... instead of wing nuts mine has flat head screws and there is NO room to get a screw driver in there...)
-Valve lash set (.002 intake, .003 exhaust)
-cam chain tensioned
-tach cable replaced (mine broke ... nice to have a tach again)
-New iridium spark plugs (.025" gap) + NGK plug caps installed
-chain lubed and attempted to tension

... And here is where the problems begin. I was getting frustrated wondering why my chain wouldn't tension anymore when I realized I'm all the back in the slots. Arg! Still have way more slack than I need.... damn. So much so I could probably get away with taking a link out and moving all the way to front of the slots. I am guessing this is an unacceptable practice? The chain is obviously stretched so I should probably just throw it away.

Do I need to replace the sprockets too? They look to be in good shape and aren't worn up to a point. Still have a rounded edge on the tips.

I know the answer is probably "Just replace it you cheap SOB!" lol but I've just spend $1200 on new 4 into 4 exhaust (which I'll probably have to pay duty on to get it in the country...) and about $300 in tune up parts and tools. Anyway, if it's gotta be done then it's gotta be done. Just curious what your opinions are out there.

I guess the other part of my question is ... what is a Canadian guy's best source for a chain and/or sprockets?

Thanks again for your help,

IW

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 07:51:12 AM »
If the chain still fits on the sprockets nicely I would remove a link. A picture might help.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline Magpie

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 08:10:07 AM »
The chain is a fairly important part and has been known to smash cases if it breaks. I just got a non oring chain for $30 (from a kawasaki shop) so cheaper ones are out there if it's a budget issue.
Cliff.

bollingball

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 08:22:25 AM »
I know the answer is probably "Just replace it you cheap SOB!"

You said it not me ;D You would need to check the old sprockets next to some none good ones. Just go ahead and change them and be done with it. jmho.

Ken

Offline iron_worker

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 08:32:14 AM »
Whats the best source for chain and sprockets. I'd like to buy it all at once place if possible.

Thanks,

IW

Offline mono

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 08:35:05 AM »
everything i've heard regarding chain/sprockets is that they should be replaced as a set.

however, if you can take a link out of the chain and it still hangs on the sprockets OK, i don't see the problem (aside from the "broken chain destroying things" argument).  i'm sure there's some kind of math or physics equation involved in this, though.

i'd personally do it as a quick fix until i could replace the set, which is obviously the ideal thing to do :)

Offline iron_worker

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 08:42:40 AM »
Well I guess the physics/geometry of it is that it's obviously stretched enough each link is slightly longer. The spacing between the sprocket teeth has probably not changed and so I'm probably not getting an ideal contact on each link to tooth.

I may try taking a link out... I'm scared that I'll take it out though and then the chain is too short and I'm stuck with nothing to ride! ha

IW

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 08:44:30 AM »
Do you have the correct number of links?! When you lift a link up on the rear sprocket can you see the top of a tooth? If yes, it's stretched TOO much, replace it. If the sprockets are not worn out of shape you can probably get by. Good chains are expensive nowadays. If you get a new one go with a high tensile strength 9000+ and you won't be adjusting or replacing often provided you maintain it. The money will be well spent and it won't snap on you. I recently found a 10,500 lb tensile strength 530 Tsubaki sigma 102 link chain from a Harley type shop while trolling EBay. Made an offer of $90 and got it. I was expecting to pay $150+. 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 08:45:06 AM »
It's more likely to give you a problem if the slack isn't removed IMHO.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline 750K

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 08:56:42 AM »
If you have a Honda friendly shop you order parts from normally, they should be able to get you a new chain or sprockets. Most of the time you want to replace all as a set but I've read of people doing their sprockets every second chain replacement if they still have good tooth life left.
77 Cb750, 78 Kz1000

Offline iron_worker

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 09:10:31 AM »
I've had bad experiences with the Honda shop here. I haven't been back for a couple years...

Anyway, I'll start shopping around for a new chain. I def agree that having slack in the chain just increases the wear rate since you get that whipping/snapping effect every time you hit the throttle.

As far as the correct number of links ... I'm not really sure. I believe last season when I adjusted the chain I must have adjusted it to the stops without realizing it. It had the correct slack then.

IW

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 09:17:45 AM »
How old is the chain?
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

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Offline iron_worker

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 09:38:34 AM »
I am not really sure ... but if I had to guess ... 10+ years. lol

Offline nayto550

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 10:00:45 AM »
I'm not 100% certain, but I think there is a spec in the manual for a servicable limit on chain stretch.
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Offline mono

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 10:02:55 AM »
i think the manual says that if you are adjusting it past the last marker line on the swingarm that you should replace it.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 10:04:38 AM »
No, there should be a maximum distance between links.

If he bought a chain with more links than stock the above post statement would be moot.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline nayto550

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 10:20:24 AM »
I'm not 100% certain, but I think there is a spec in the manual for a servicable limit on chain stretch.

Book spec for replacement:
"If chain stretch is computed to be greater than 10mm over 1m, the chain must be replaced."

Unfortunately, if you don't know the original new chain length, it seems that it would be impossible to calculate.  If the chain stretched to the point that it can't be adjusted out, I would replace it regardless of the measurement (unless the chain was too long to start with).
1976 CB550F
1976 CB750F - in resurrection process
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Offline MCRider

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 10:38:31 AM »
There were so many posts worthy of quoting, I just decided to start a fresh one, to summarize many of the thoughts already proposed.

First, if it was too long to begin with you could be reaching the adjustment ends prematurely. Check with a parts fish for the correct number of lengths for your year (assuming it has stock diameter sprockets). Now at some point it may have been the proper length chain, but someone decreased the size of the front sprocket making the chain effectively too long. Chains often need to be shortened when a smaller front sprocket is used.

The question was asked about age. The real question is mileage. If the chain is relatively low mileage, below 3000, lets say, then even if it had been neglected it wouldn't have stretched (actually worn, chains don't stretch) that far and the scenario is one of a too long chain.

The test is, take all the slack out of the chain by pushing up on the bottom row. Then at about 3 OClock on the rear sprocket pull the link away from the sprocket. If there is no, or only a skosh of daylight showiing between the chain and the sprocket you can still use it. Remove a link (2 actually as you can't remove just one) and start over.

If you can see daylight and more, throw it away and buy new. On a budget you can skip the sprockets, just realize your new chain will wear faster on the old ones. But it will probably last long enough (3-5 thou miles) for your treasury to recover and you can replace everything.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Imago

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 10:47:32 AM »
Just down the road from you near Craven here...

I ordered chains and front/rear sprockets for my 1978 CB750F and my 1974 CB750K from Bike Bandit (San Diego) and they include duty, taxes etc. to Canada.

I lucked into a sale that they seem to have fairly regulary. Here's what I paid for the '74 CB705K stuff:

JT Sprockets Steel Sprocket $17.27
JT Sprockets Steel Sprocket $29.29
EK 530 Standard Non-Sealed Motorcycle Chain $28.77

Many recommended the non-oring chain for this year, so that's what I went with. I understand fitment (width) can be an issue with o-ring chain. Not the best available for sure, but when on sale, very reasonably priced.

Oh, they have a Dairyland Insurance discount (10%) as well. I found you don't have to buy their insurance to be eligible for the discount.

 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 11:05:00 AM by Imago »

Offline MCRider

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 11:06:07 AM »
Shouldn't be any issues with width of (ORing) chain on a CB750, that's just the 500/550 crowd.

530 non-oring is fine for what it is. ORing is hugely more convenient, somewhat more longevity assuming you meticulously service the non-Oring in comparison. Huge advantage in longevity if you don't (maintain in comparison). And more expensive.

Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Dimitri13

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 11:10:28 AM »
Chances are that if it's that stretched, it's also kinked. It's like $30-50 for a decent roller chain.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 11:36:18 AM »
I know about the mileage MC, what I was trying to get at was that if that chain was original to the bike it should be replaced. Better materials, etc.

But as we all know mileage is not a good indicator either, if it was not maintained properly or tensioned improperly a new chain could wear out in as little as 4000 miles or less.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

bollingball

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2012, 11:55:51 AM »
Let's just cut to the chase and cut out the bs it is 10 years old change the damn chain and sprockets end of story You cheap as S**%%B sorry I'm going to take my meds now.

Ken

Offline MCRider

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2012, 12:25:05 PM »
I know about the mileage MC, what I was trying to get at was that if that chain was original to the bike it should be replaced. Better materials, etc.

But as we all know mileage is not a good indicator either, if it was not maintained properly or tensioned improperly a new chain could wear out in as little as 4000 miles or less.
You are absolutley right, my bad! Rather than saying "the real question" I should have said "an additional question."

I'm a big proponent of age being a major factor in problems that an otherwise good looking part can suffer. Cables, tires, chains, even with the best appearance, can be shot or on their way out internally from corrosion, outgassing, ...age.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline iron_worker

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Re: So my chain is stretched ....
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 02:24:04 PM »
Gentlemen,

Lets not get upset about this. I appreciate all the opinions. Let me just say I will be changing the chain soon... hunting for deals as we speak. I'm not *that* broke... I just spent $1500 on the bike already this season is all.

Thank you for all your time. The chain shall be replaced.... and I'll probably just replace the sprockets at the same time for the heck of it since it seems to be the right thing to do. I'll probably try and spring for an o-ring chain too since I don't ride often but when I do I don't want to be spending my riding time lubing a chain. lol  (I live in an apartment so doing maintenance is a real pain in the @ss).

Thanks again,

IW
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 06:59:57 AM by iron_worker »