Topic: Can I run fender-less in the front? 77 CB550k

[thrutheframe]

  I personally don't believe in going fenderless, it leaves you open for a lot of debris to hit your motor and get thrown into your legs or onto a passenger.  Anyone who wants to go fenderless, that's your decision and that's part of riding, each rider gets to make their own decision about what they like and don't like.  As to the idea that a front fender acts as a fork brace, that's just not viable.  Yes it is more lateral support than none but the amount of bracing provided by the fender and it's arched piece of steel is negligible compared to a real fork brace.  If it were a real fork brace, fork braces would have never been invented.
  Again it's about personal choices, I don't run a fork brace because I don't really push my bikes to their limits.  Anyone who wants to run a front fender and think it's a fork brace, that's your decision and I support your right to make that call 100%.

[jamesb]

Kansas is easy going just as long as you have insurance and a license your good to go. as far as the wobble goes like stev o i have never had any problems the 20 mile ride ride home wednesday night had a lot of curves in the road never once did it appear to have any issues the only problem i can see you would have with the forks if you have over stock length my 75 chopper has 10 overs and with out the tweek bar they twist around just sitting my old 350's didn't have them one of them is still rolling with out one in fact he was with me wednesday night.all i can say is try it if you don't like it put it back on. but you will get hit with small road debris and stay out of the rain that is not a good experience

[crazypj]

If the '77 550 stock fender mount is mounted in rubber grommets, like the '77 750, it doesn't do squat as far as acting like a fork brace. I set up a test a while back. If you replace the stock grommets with washers of the proper thickness and diameter, it will reduce the fork flex by 20%.

You'll find the spring washers are just about perfect size to fit into the holes in original brace
 Just use 3/4"~1" OD flat washers and it clamps everything up pretty tight
Even though a 110 will fit stock rim, it's still a dumb ideal.
 Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should,  you could cut your head off, but, I wouldn't recommend that either.

[DJ_AX]

Fender = a guard
You can let your guard down all you want...

I ran over some fresh road kill the other day. (completely unavoidable) splattered guts
So glad I had my fender on

[Lostboy Steve]

Your state may have something to say about that decision also. I just got through reading the PA state inspection requirements, and they require a fender.

(4) Check the fenders and REJECT
IF any
of the following apply:
(i) A fender—front or rear—has been
removed.
(ii) A fender is not of a type and size used
as original equipment.

No NJ decided to leave it to the rider to make sure their bike is safe.

[Lostboy Steve]

Actually, it probably came with a 90/90-19 in 1978.

No, it came with a 3.25 x 19.   Which would be an 82/82 - 19 in exact metric equivalent.
The 550's front rim has a 1.85 in. bead seat.

About fender-less...
Ever notice how similar emergency evasive maneuvers on the open road are just like maximum performance racing conditions?

Just when you are trying to eek out a near miss, the front forks twist and skew under load and a small road bump, and the front wheel twists a bit to go in an uncommanded direction.  But then, chicks dig scars, slurred speech, disability checks, and wheel chair ramps.
...and crumpled up bikes with big tires on them.

Cheers,

First of all with all the road debris and animal carcases that people are hitting, straight line riding seems to be the only type of riding going on around here. I myself have never hit road debris or a dead animal so maybe I should consider a fork brace more seriously as I may actually avoid hitting #$%*. On the other hand, my fender is rubber mounted and when bolted on it does seem to move a bit when wiggled, I would assume that the force exerted during riding is much more than that of my hand, correct?

[onepieceatatime]

No NJ decided to leave it to the rider to make sure their bike is safe.

So the state that wont let you have hollow points or pump your own gas will let you make safety decisions on your own about your motorcycle? 

[lucky]

Stock fender cut to use as a fender brace. This is with a 100/90-19 tire. Close, but it clears.

Nothing wrong, as long as the tire clears. make sure the aft edge has 1/8 clearance.
If the AFT edge of the brace contacts the tire it will stop the front wheel!
The front edge has plenty of clearance.

Speed wobbles are not caused by fenderless front wheels.

[Rookster]

Twisted, don't do it.  You are on the verge of saying the fender brace is not a fork brace and then all hell breaks loose.  You end up trying to prove this with experiments only to be told by people who don't do any experiments that you are doing it wrong.  I think everyone has conceded the rubber mounted fender brace is not actually a fork brace.  That in itself should say something about the Honda engineers and their infallability, but again, don't go there.

Scott (still feeling the effects of the last dust up over this issue)

[Lostboy Steve]

No NJ decided to leave it to the rider to make sure their bike is safe.

So the state that wont let you have hollow points or pump your own gas will let you make safety decisions on your own about your motorcycle? 

No you have it wrong, this is the GREAT STATE OF GREY AREAS. As per the NJ State Police: "It is unlawful to knowingly have in one's possession ''any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet." Nothing in this prohibition shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, or while engaged in activities covered by paragraphs 3, 4, and 5 above under the Exceptions to the Permit to Carry or FID requirement."

So I think you can have and use them on your own property?

[Lostboy Steve]

I think that means you can shoot them at a range as well.. 

[onepieceatatime]

I stand corrected.

[TwoTired]

Stock fender cut to use as a fender brace. This is with a 100/90-19 tire. Close, but it clears.

Doesn't the tire swell at high speed from centrifugal force, making the center taller?  Don't know how much growth occurs in THAT tire.  But, if you've ever been to a drag race, tire diameter growth was pretty easy to see.

About this fenderless idea, though.
Personally, I generally prefer stock stuff because it was designed and reviewed by a team of educated engineers, who together, could fill in knowledge that another might be lacking or had overlooked.

Can twelve people make the same mistake?  Yes, it happens.  You only need to browse these forums for ample evidence of that.  Education reduces the probability, though.  I don't think human opinion means sh!t, particularly when no facts are considered, other than what "looks" good.  You only need to look at human fashion trends to see ample proof of multiple shared opinion being outright wrong.

But, since this is more about opinion than any actual function... 
Do you think the first motorcycle was born with a fender?
I think not.    (Hey, it's only my opinion.  I wasn't actually there.  Nor have I researched the very first motorcycle.)
But, I believe it wasn't until later that a fender was added as an improvement toward increasing the machine's general utility.
So, in my mind, removing the fender is a regression in technology, and diminishes the bike's effective performance envelope.
Really, would you want to drive fenderless from Maine to Mexico?

I certainly don't like wearing bits of roadway or any of its accumulated detritus, and fenders reduce that interaction greatly.
How many street cleaners have you seen on the highway?   And, do they actually clean, or just push stuff around until it has an even patina?   How many times have you seen people discard stuff from their moving vehicles?  Care to imagine what that "stuff" is?  Care to wear it?  Sure, some of it just might be Angelina Jolie's personal body sweat, that would make you feel "close" to her.  But, that's just not for me. 

Me, I not only want fenders, but a windshield and fairing, too.  I've eaten my fair share of bugs, and other grit and grime off the roadway, when I was younger and "invincible".  (I feel stupid about that now.)  Now, I'd rather it went around me and settled in my tracks for someone else to consume or wear.

But, that's just my opinion. 

Cheers,

[Scott S]

 I'm running that same size tire on my two other SOHC's, both with stock fenders. That's a stock fender, no rubber washers, cut down on either side of the brace underneath.
 It's nowhere close to touching the tire at the front or rear. It will slightly rub the side wall right now, but that's because I made a dumb mistake: I initially mounted it without the caliper holder, during mockup. It was offset a little and I tweaked it...forgetting that the caliper holder wedges in there. I bent it back to proper shape some, but it needs to be removed to be reshaped properly.

 That's on my "Sweep The Floor" bike, using leftover parts in the garage. It's a cafe'/stree fighter/rat bike and is still under construction. It will be used for fun. I have two fully fendered bikes if I forecast riding in inclement weather.

[andrewk]

 

First of all with all the road debris and animal carcases that people are hitting, straight line riding seems to be the only type of riding going on around here. I myself have never hit road debris or a dead animal so maybe I should consider a fork brace more seriously as I may actually avoid hitting #$%*. On the other hand, my fender is rubber mounted and when bolted on it does seem to move a bit when wiggled, I would assume that the force exerted during riding is much more than that of my hand, correct?

The force exerted would certainly be greater than your hand, but the flex is limited by the fender/bracing.  Without something there, it can flex farther (say, under a hard corner) which adversely affects handling.  It CAN cause a speed wobble, or it might not- it's a roll of the die.

As for not hitting things, you're lucky so far.  Sometimes your number is up, sometimes it isn't.

[Rookster]

OK, we have 3 seperate discussions here (maybe 4) that have been lumped together as 1.  Lets clarify:
1. Fenders are good or bad. 
2. The Honda fender brace is actually a fork brace.  Larger theme: Are Honda engineers right all the time? 
3. Fork braces limit flex by making the forks more rigid.

As for me.  I own 2 bikes and both have front fenders.  I like front fenders except on choppers but I don't own a chopper.  And yes it is about looks sometimes (not afraid to admit it).  Fork braces absolutely stiffen up the front end and create more predictable handling.  I won't say they make better handling all the time as ill fitting braces may actually make it worse.  As for the other discussion, I won't go there becuase I don't feel like taking the forums that seriously anymore.  I come here for relaxation and enjoyment not to argue.  Just my opinions.

Scott (whose little voice says to stop posting in this thread)

[Retro Rocket]

by Lucky, Speed wobbles are not caused by fenderless front wheels.

And where did you get this little snip-it of info Lucky.?

Removing something , regardless of how much or little support it adds to the front suspension,  will up the likely hood of less stability, less stability in the front end will increase the probability of a tank slapper, speed wobble. When dropping these type of statements on the forum you should also consider that we have all types of riders on here, from bar hoppers to hard riders and racers, not all of them are technically minded making that statement dangerous to someone that has little knowledge, but still likes to push his bike.

[crazypj]

From experience and experiments, even with a fork brace, a modified CB550F1 goes into a really scary speed wobble at 115mph then comes out of it at 118mph and is stable up to max speed (about 127mph)

[Retro Rocket]

From experience and experiments, even with a fork brace, a modified CB550F1 goes into a really scary speed wobble at 115mph then comes out of it at 118mph and is stable up to max speed (about 127mph)

Do you use a steering damper.?  That would help with the high speed wobble..

[scottly]

Personally, I generally prefer stock stuff because it was designed and reviewed by a team of educated engineers, who together, could fill in knowledge that another might be lacking or had overlooked.


Me, I not only want fenders, but a windshield and fairing, too.
But, that's just my opinion. 

Cheers,

So who engineered your fairing? Honda?? Or Craig Vetter, salesman? What is the effect of adding the fairing onto your bike in terms of fuel economy and stability in cross-winds? Ever ridden with it in 40+ MPH cross-winds? 

[TwoTired]

So who engineered your fairing? Honda?? Or Craig Vetter, salesman?

Craig Vetter and his engineering team.  He started his company in 1966.

What is the effect of adding the fairing onto your bike in terms of fuel economy and stability in cross-winds? Ever ridden with it in 40+ MPH cross-winds?

Fuel economy either stayed the same or went up.  You can most definitely feel wind pressure on your back pushing you forward while riding. When I bought it, I expected worse fuel economy.  It just didn't happen.  The 74 Cb550k got right around 50mpg with about equal distance city and highway driving during routine 80 mile r.t. commutes.
The Vetter is surprisingly aerodynamic, which I think helped in the 40 + mph cross winds, as it slices through/deflects air rather than it catching on every protruding cable, gauge, bar, and everything else shielded behind it.  Now, standing still takes some concentration in wind gusts.  But, then, it always did.

However, I didn't do a direct before/after test just for you. 

What have your questions got to do with running fenderless?  Why do you still bother to read my posts?

Cheers,  ;

[shinyribs]

You can run a 110 front tire without issues. I had 110 and 120 on mine and used to lean it far enough over I could feel it rock on the edge of the tread and drag pegs. You'll be fine.

I have since went back to stock sizes front and back for experiments sake. I will admit the stock sizes seem more stable,but a slightly oversized tire (Front or rear)is not a huge concern. If you like the way your bike looks with a 110 tire,stick with what you like. The biggest concern is to make sure your front and rear tire profiles match. Other than that you're pretty much OK.

On the issue of  the fender is a fork brace...c'mon,seriously?!?! Its a flimsy little piece of metal that you can flex by hand!!! I am relatively new to the whole CB scene,but you mean to tell me that THIS is a huge debate?!?! It holds the fender to the forks...period. No way that thing is a fork brace. When I was laying mine over like mentioned before I had no fender brace on. Thats right...it IS called a fender brace cuz that is what it is bracing. Like was mentioned before,Honda mounted it with little rubber grommets. Why would they do that? TO  ISOLATE IT FROM THE FENDER. WHY THE #*%@ WOULD YOU ISOLATE A FORK BRACE FROM YOUR FORKS?!?!?! YOU WOULDN'T!!! And they didn't. It just holds the damn fender on. 5hit,c'mon guys

Please dont call this willowy little piece of sheet metal a fork brace...that's just embarrassing . Really.

[crazypj]

It does help stabilize the fork lowers when modified by removing the rubber bushings and fitting solid washers.
 If the paint isn't cracking on frame at tail edge of tank, your not riding anything like as hard as you think you are

[shinyribs]

I suppose it would help keep them from turning when you pull the front tire off. Anything you can do to tie the two forks together will obviously...um...tie the two forks together. I just cannot believe that some people consider this a fork brace. But it's a free country and we all have our opinions.

[BobbyR]

Ride with or without whatever you want. My Cousin needs a liver transplant.