Topic: Can I run fender-less in the front? 77 CB550k

[shinyribs]

Sorry to hear about your cousin.I hope all goes well with his health issues.

You are so right. There are a lot of things much more important than bikes.So much more

Best wishes.

[andrewk]

I suppose it would help keep them from turning when you pull the front tire off. Anything you can do to tie the two forks together will obviously...um...tie the two forks together. I just cannot believe that some people consider this a fork brace. But it's a free country and we all have our opinions.

It is a brace.  A poor one relative to what is available in the aftermarket, even when these bikes were new, but a brace none the less.  It helps, but can be vastly improved upon. If anyone here believes that the front fender removes all flex from the front end, they're kidding themselves, but I don't see anyone saying that.

I've done a back to back test on my bike and it handles much more predictably with the fender installed than when removed.  It still flexes but it's reduced significantly.  Still needs more bracing though.

[BobbyR]

Sorry to hear about your cousin.I hope all goes well with his health issues.

You are so right. There are a lot of things much more important than bikes.So much more

Best wishes.

Thanks. I was talking to a transplant Nurse. A lot of their transplant organs come from States without helmet laws.

[shinyribs]

Wow...that really makes you stop and think,doesn't it. I always rock a helmet and never considered if it was law or not. Scary thought to ride without one! Besides,I dont like the taste of bugs...

[TerryK]

I don't run a fender or a brace and my 73' 500 handles great. Holds a line like it's on a rail.

[crazypj]

Yeah, right 

[TwoTired]

I don't run a fender or a brace and my 73' 500 handles great. Holds a line like it's on a rail.

To what other bike do you compare it to?

[Retro Rocket]

I suppose it would help keep them from turning when you pull the front tire off. Anything you can do to tie the two forks together will obviously...um...tie the two forks together. I just cannot believe that some people consider this a fork brace. But it's a free country and we all have our opinions.

Yes we all have opinions and yours is out there. Adding even a "flimsy" bit of metal where the brace lies will add enough strength to the front end to notice the difference, even some one with no basic knowledge of front end geometry or physics could work that out. Take your front guard off and put your front wheel against something solid, then the force the handle bars in the same direction as the object {wall etc} , replace the guard and try again, or if you know someone with the equipment to measure deflection forces, find out how much pressure it takes to flex the brace the same amount as the unbraced front end, you will be very surprised... The stock front end is fairly flimsy as it is, why on earth would you want to make it worse. Scraping the pegs doesn't mean much on these bikes as they scrape so easily, try some 100mph sweepers without the guard then report back...... Oh and if you were riding off the edge of the tire on most bikes you would be sliding down the road, especially the front... {there's not enough ground clearance on the Honda to do that anyway}


Bobby, sorry to hear about your friend, i have "inside" information on that one....{literally}

[Lostboy Steve]

OK well I went for a nice 25mi ride saturday and took some turns at speed that were.... well tight. The bike handles amazing so I'm leaving well enough alone. I do have a separate issue (running wise) which I will post in a separate thread. I got the bike up to just about time travel speed (you better know that reference), and it felt really really great. I was very impressed. Didn't stand a chance against my brother-in-laws new fzr600, but off the line it was pretty good.

[tortelvis]

Oh yes...my Triumph hardtail back in  the 70s with no front fender. Riding in the rain at the speed limit threw water right between my eyes. Slower and I got it in the chest, so the only alternative was to ride...FASTER! Flew right over my head. Nice.

[crazypj]

This isn't Honda, it's my 95 Katana 600.
CB550 is actually quicker and has modified suspension to give more ground clearance.
Fork brace is only about 1.5mm thick but it's designed to stop forks twisting not make them move up and down together (same as the Honda one)
http://youtu.be/8BBwsgBCxq8

[shinyribs]

But it's a free country and we all have our opinions.

Yes we all have opinions and yours is out there.

Thanks! I like thinking outside of the box,not just going with the flow! But like I said earlier,you can flex these things with one hand just by pinching your thumb and index together.Like a clothes pin.I have squeezed firmer breasts,dude. If these braces are that flimsy,YET they much the bike so much better I tell ya what...I'll upgrade mine.Yeah,lets see,how could I put something on there even stronger than that brace???....OH,I KNOW whats stronger...my hand! Yeah,I'll just ride with one had on the fork legs to keep them from flexing.

Seriously,though. Listen to me without hating me.

If you dig the fender support as a brace - fine. I got no beef with that

If you wanna tell people the fender support is a fork brace and they shouldn't ride with out - yeah. i got beef with that.

Everybody can post their opinions.That is what we are supposed to do! But if you have to overlook common sense to support your opinion dont tell ME that my opinion is "out there"! HAHA  Thats just funny! But again,thanks for the comp...

[MCRider]

Flexing it with your hand is a wholly different thing than bolting it down in 4 places and then trying to flex it. Common sense.

[Lostboy Steve]

Flexing it with your hand is a wholly different thing than bolting it down in 4 places and then trying to flex it. Common sense.

Yes, I said after mounting it I could still wobble it by hand.

[MCRider]

Flexing it with your hand is a wholly different thing than bolting it down in 4 places and then trying to flex it. Common sense.

Yes, I said after mounting it I could still wobble it by hand.

Ok, missed that.

[TwoTired]

But like I said earlier,you can flex these things with one hand just by pinching your thumb and index together.Like a clothes pin.

...and THAT'S the sum total of your mechanical analysis??

You must think airplanes are pretty flimsy, as it is SOOO easy to bend a single aluminum sheet component that covers the airplane.

The fender/fork brace never encounters forces at the brace which "pinch" the end of the brace together.  The fork tubes themselves and the mount points at the triple and front axle account for that.  So, the brace doesn't get much if any "pinching" force that is the main substance of your "test". 

For your off-the-bike and out-of-the-system "test", try moving one of the brace mount points forward while moving the other mount point rearward.
How easy is that?  This is its intended function in force resistance.  To keep the forks parallel with each other in the fore/aft plane of motion relative the the triple's alignment, not to keep the forks from bending inward toward each other.   The brace is at a point much closer to the front axle for a better leverage moment, which is desired to keep the axle in the same orientation to the triples as possible.  This is the function of ANY fork brace.

In addition, as you try and twist the Fork/fender brace, the mount holes change their mount plane relative to each other.  A firm clench of these points onto the fork, further resists the brace's twisting movement.
This means that as it functions within an assembly, it adds far more than the part can individually with its symbiotic relationship.

Ever seen a box girder bridge?  Do you think the same bridge made with just one of those beams would flex?  The box girder system arranges the transfer of forces so that each beam receives force in it's greatest strength withstand direction.  It is a structure of many parts working together in symbiosis.

Do you have ANY understanding of mechanical structure and the transfer forces within it?  Any training or experience at all?

Listen to me without hating me.

I don't hate you.  I do disdain the methodology around which you've formed an erroneous and unsupportable opinion.

If you wanna tell people the fender support is a fork brace and they shouldn't ride with out - yeah. i got beef with that.

...A beef without foundation in science, fact, or understanding of the forces involved.

I like thinking outside of the box,not just going with the flow!

If you are going to think outside the box, it helps to know where the box you are thinking outside of, is.
Otherwise, it's relevance is possibly more related to the price of tea in China.

Ride on...

[Retro Rocket]

Seriously,though. Listen to me without hating me.

The use of "hate" sh1ts me,  here in Aus, if you hate someone you despise them, i don't despise you. simple.

Everybody can post their opinions.That is what we are supposed to do! But if you have to overlook common sense to support your opinion dont tell ME that my opinion is "out there"! HAHA  Thats just funny! But again,thanks for the comp...

Wow, you need to practice what you preach mate because there is not one shred of common sense in your post at all, you obviously completely overlooked the critical parts of my reply, which are based on simple facts and principles . Whats that old saying....Ignorance is bliss   
and the other one....bullsh1t makes the world go round..... {shakes head}

[BobbyR]

Well you see I have read all these posts and I have come to the conclusion people will do what they want, or believe.

I have come to a point in my life, I rarely care what people do on a personal level, as long as it does not effect me or the public.

In my working life I have to care since literally thousands of lives depend on my giving correct information. They do not always like what we have to say of it goes against their current belief system or past practices. 

When it comes to fender braces the engineering principles are sound. If they seem less rigid than the casual test would make you believe, they do not have to be rigid to be effective, they can have a dampening effect.

Put it on, take it off. If you are happy with how your bike looks or handles that is fine.   

[MCRider]

Well you see I have read all these posts and I have come to the conclusion people will do what they want, or believe.

I have come to a point in my life, I rarely care what people do on a personal level, as long as it does not effect me or the public.

In my working life I have to care since literally thousands of lives depend on my giving correct information. They do not always like what we have to say of it goes against their current belief system or past practices. 

When it comes to fender braces the engineering principles are sound. If they seem less rigid than the casual test would make you believe, they do not have to be rigid to be effective, they can have a dampening effect.

Put it on, take it off. If you are happy with how your bike looks or handles that is fine.

Thanks Bobby. All the best!

[Stev-o]

Bobby - well said, thank you. 

I like a good forum discussion. What I don't like is some "engineer type" writing condescending statements to some of the members.  Is that really necessary?

We may want to run without a front fender, a wider than stock tire, or some other mod from stock, why does it bother you so? We know that Honda did not engineer it that way, we don't care. If we all had stock bikes, how boring would that be?

I have a K8 that is bone stock and original, except for tires that have been replaced with
stock sizes, and will stay that way.
My 550 "cafe" is modded and will stay that way no matter how much I read I need a fender/brace or narrower tires. It's not a race bike and I'm not out dragging the pegs,
what's the harm?

Rant over.

[shinyribs]

Do you have ANY understanding of mechanical structure and the transfer forces within it?  Any training or experience at all?

Training?-No.I wasn't that fortunate
Understanding of mechanical structure and the transfer forces within it?- Well...I did build a chassis for a 1,000+HP,3,500lb  '48 Oldsmobile from scratch that is still together after several years of drag racing.Not mention several other chassis that are still in drag racing service today.  I suppose that my drag racing days have made my "understanding" of what is structurally sound/needed a little more demanding than what is needed on a 65+HP bike with a combined rider/bike weight of 700ish lbs. My apologies.

Look guys. It's like this. If you feel the fender brace is needed and/or sufficient for your needs-then by all means I would never talk you out of that.Never.

What I dont like is alarmist trying to scare a guy into running a fender brace that THEY deem critical.

LIKE I SAID,anything you do to tie two objects together will always stiffen the situation. My apologies for my lack of uber-scientific jargon. I dont know any.

ALL I SAID was,if you dump the brace that IN MY OPINION is flimsy,I doubt you'll see any difference. I know I didn't.

I love my CB as much as anyone. When I stepped out of my 1,000 HP drag car and slung a leg over my CB for the first time,I knew my door slammer days were gone. I'm on two wheels now. But as much as I love my CB,and would like to be able to defend the stock front end setup as awesome,I can't. We all know they are adequate,yet flimsy. It is the sad truth. No amount of fender brace is gonna fix that. I wish it would! It would save me a lot of money,but it just doesn't get the job done.

Also,all opinions are awesome.That is what makes this forum so great. I would never trust one strangers opinion alone. The general consensus is a much better scale to go by. Get all the info you can,make you OWN mind up from there. That's your best bet.

I'm not gonna get into a spitting match over a fender brace. I gave my opinion,I have listened to others. I'm calling it quits for me.  But for the guy who said you cant knock the chicken strips off with a CB...try it bro...you're missing out!

Hold on...I had no fender brace OR chicken strips?!?! How is that possible?!?!

Before everybody jumps on me ( even more-like I care) for being a hypocrite about fender braces cuz they might see a pic of my bike in its current state.Yes,I do run a front fender.No,it was not on the bike when I knocked my chicken strips off. It's on now cuz I was tired of mud packing in my fins.

[Retro Rocket]

Shinny, scroll down the page in this link and look at the brace on the Cerrianni GP road race front end, not much different to the old Honda brace mate...  A brace is a brace, no matter how flimsy you may think it is...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=99452.425

Seriously, this subject has been flogged to death numerous times on the forum, just like the rear frame brace on the 750's that the rear fender mounts to.

[shinyribs]

Thanks for the link. I checked it out. Yeah,not much difference at all,is it?

Flogged? Yep.I agree. *sigh*...i thought you could post opinions on here. Wasn't aware you had to conduct independent lab studies. Oh well,opinions are opinions and all is well.

[Retro Rocket]

No Hating here mate....

[shinyribs]

Likewise Retro.