Topic: Can I run fender-less in the front? 77 CB550k

[Lostboy Steve]

The opinionated are so opinionated. (One of my favorite quotes just wish I could remember who said it.)

[fmctm1sw]

I knew where this thread was headed.  That's why I didn't clik it 3 days ago     I figured at 4 pages, I'd take a look...   yep 

[Duke McDukiedook]

OK, can you run fenderless on your bike?

Of course you can, this is a free country and you are free to do what you want to with your bike.

Is it recommended? No, unless you are putting a fork brace on to replace it.

Me, I like the old school look of it so it stays on and it does add structural rigidity to the forks. I don't want to hear some ricky racer come back to us after having a slapper throw him off his bike at the ton and blame us because people said it was ok to ditch the fender and brace. That is why people caution against it.

[BobbyR]

Bobby - well said, thank you. 

I like a good forum discussion. What I don't like is some "engineer type" writing condescending statements to some of the members.  Is that really necessary?

We may want to run without a front fender, a wider than stock tire, or some other mod from stock, why does it bother you so? We know that Honda did not engineer it that way, we don't care. If we all had stock bikes, how boring would that be?

I have a K8 that is bone stock and original, except for tires that have been replaced with
stock sizes, and will stay that way.
My 550 "cafe" is modded and will stay that way no matter how much I read I need a fender/brace or narrower tires. It's not a race bike and I'm not out dragging the pegs,
what's the harm?

Rant over.

Thanks. I am actually an Engineer and in my work I have to try to make the complex simple so people can understand it. When I am with the Shop with guys who actually fix and maintain things I ratchet it down a notch so they get it quick and don't get bored.

When I am with the Engineers, I haul out the words they love to hear. Some people have the knack of doing that. I can and some can't. I have a partner who is great, but he does not have the knack. When asked why the Locomotive pressure signals are not being responded to by the car, he said "It is a mass flow problem" they looked puzzled, I said " We are swapping out the valve, not enough air is getting through". They all nodded their heads.

I have a 78K and I have the fender on. I had a Ducati with no fender once. One ride in the rain made me a fender guy. The mass flow of water in my face made me a believer.   

[TwoTired]

OK, can you run fenderless on your bike?

Of course you can, this is a free country and you are free to do what you want to with your bike.

Is it recommended? No, unless you are putting a fork brace on to replace it.

Me, I like the old school look of it so it stays on and it does add structural rigidity to the forks. I don't want to hear some ricky racer come back to us after having a slapper throw him off his bike at the ton and blame us because people said it was ok to ditch the fender and brace. That is why people caution against it.

Well said. 
I do what I do on here to help people and help keep them healthy and prosperous.  If someone chooses to do something that can hurt them, surely they will do so without any, or in spite of, input from me.  However, if someone would like to identify risks before trying something, I'll tell them what pitfalls I can identify, using my knowledge base.  And, I will argue against someone who recommends nonchalantly that other people take unnecessary risks.  I believe the later is reprehensible and irresponsible.  Yes, people have survived jumping out a 5 story window.  Ain't that "cool".  But, that is NOT an excuse to recommend it for everyone else.

If people get hurt arguing from a position of uninformed opinion rather than knowledge, that is their own problem, imo.  Good ideas/designs will withstand scrutiny and remain good despite inquiries.  Bad ones will be exposed for what they are under scrutiny and inquiries.  I've experienced both, and have had my knowledge base expanded for the effort.  I kinda think that as a goal in life.  He that learns the most before death, wins. 

Cheers,

[Goofaroo]

Me, I like the old school look of it so it stays on and it does add structural rigidity to the forks.

+1.  Not only does it retain the correct handling but I think it looks great.  I don't understand why anyone would remove the front fender and not reinstall the brace.  If you leave it off you should at least keep it in case you ever want to sell the bike.

[scottly]

From 1-19-11:

I rigged up a test today. With the forks turned to the left against the steering stop, I mounted an indicator to read the movement at the rear of the rim, and hooked a spring scale to the front. All readings are with 20 pounds pulling on the wheel.
No fender mount: .100"
Stock K7 mount with rubber bushings: .100"
K7 mount with bushings removed, sandwiched between washers: .080"
Aftermarket brace: .040"

[shinyribs]

Awesome test Scotty. Thanks for putting in the time to do that.

[crazypj]

I hadn't seen that test before.
Interesting.
I think the stock brace with rubber will limit movement to 0.100" no matter what
 Without any brace, the clamping force at axle is the only thing to limit twist.
I'm pretty sure there is a lot more than 20lbs pressure on a bike moving at 60+?

[socalenduro]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

those who feel the fender does not provide any help against flex and is therefore un-needed
think a bigger tire within reason is just fine
and tend to have cafed, bobber, etc bikes or at least really like the style and looks

dare i say there is a much greater theme in all this than JUST is a fender needed on the bike....

[Stev-o]

I dare you!

[Duke McDukiedook]

Don't be shy about it, out with it!

[Retro Rocket]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

Exception here, i am going for a modern stock sort of look but will be using larger {wider 110/80/18 and 160/60/18}wheels, this includes modifying the front and rear ends to suit, it won't be just for looks... {thats why it is taking so long... }

[BobbyR]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

Exception here, i am going for a modern stock sort of look but will be using larger {wider 110/80/18 and 160/60/18}wheels, this includes modifying the front and rear ends to suit, it won't be just for looks... {thats why it is taking so long... }

The only problem with wider tires is on stock rims. It deforms the profile of the tire and gives an odd wear after a while. The odd wear is the real handling problem. 

[Retro Rocket]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

Exception here, i am going for a modern stock sort of look but will be using larger {wider 110/80/18 and 160/60/18}wheels, this includes modifying the front and rear ends to suit, it won't be just for looks... {thats why it is taking so long... }

The only problem with wider tires is on stock rims. It deforms the profile of the tire and gives an odd wear after a while. The odd wear is the real handling problem.

Yeah, i understand Bobby, although on some bikes {including these} there are some exceptions, most larger tired bikes i have seen on here are just done for looks, this is where the problem lies and is definitely not the method i use.... By the way, i am using wider wheels as well and matching the tire sizes to the rims....

[BobbyR]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

Exception here, i am going for a modern stock sort of look but will be using larger {wider 110/80/18 and 160/60/18}wheels, this includes modifying the front and rear ends to suit, it won't be just for looks... {thats why it is taking so long... }

The only problem with wider tires is on stock rims. It deforms the profile of the tire and gives an odd wear after a while. The odd wear is the real handling problem.

Yeah, i understand Bobby, although on some bikes {including these} there are some exceptions, most larger tired bikes i have seen on here are just done for looks, this is where the problem lies and is definitely not the method i use.... By the way, i am using wider wheels as well and matching the tire sizes to the rims....

Well, when you do it right, it works out right. I of course did it wrong which is how I know.   

[seanbarney41]

here is an interesting and semi-relevant anecdote for everyone...at some point in the last year of cleaning, maintenance, and parts swapping I incorrectly installed my front fender.  Just to be clear I have a k5ish frontend with a single stay fender mounted with no rubber grommets (yes my  bike is a mutt).   Somehow I had ended up with the fender mounts on top of the caliper mount, instead of sandwiched in-between the caliper mount and the fork leg.  I knew something was wrong with my handling but couldn't put my finger on it...the suspension was stiff but unstable at the same time and the bike felt reluctant to lean over in a controllable manner.  So apparently, that fender brace is stiff enough to put the front forks in a bind and cause other handling weirdness when mounted incorrectly...cuz when I caught my mistake and mounted the thing correctly, that fender brace is sstiff enough to totally cure all of the above maladies...

[crazypj]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

those who feel the fender does not provide any help against flex and is therefore un-needed
think a bigger tire within reason is just fine
and tend to have cafed, bobber, etc bikes or at least really like the style and looks

dare i say there is a much greater theme in all this than JUST is a fender needed on the bike....

 I don't care if it's stock or modified
 I think you'll find the people who recommend a fork brace are just a LOT more experienced and have already tried running without brace of some sort or actually ride /raced when these things were new
I know how bad 70's (and 80's) bikes handle when pushed hard, but it was all we had 'back in the day' and tried various modifications to improve handling.
When something worked, we stuck with it, when something made life worse, we stopped using it real quick
 I still ride reasonable quick but I do like to find series of curves /corners and see just how quick I can go before self preservation sets in (which is why I posted video link) If you putter around at 40mph and never lean more than 5 degrees, it really doesn't matter what you do (until something goes wrong and you HAVE to make sudden direction change)

[socalenduro]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

those who feel the fender does not provide any help against flex and is therefore un-needed
think a bigger tire within reason is just fine
and tend to have cafed, bobber, etc bikes or at least really like the style and looks

dare i say there is a much greater theme in all this than JUST is a fender needed on the bike....

 I don't care if it's stock or modified
 I think you'll find the people who recommend a fork brace are just a LOT more experienced and have already tried running without brace of some sort or actually ride /raced when these things were new
I know how bad 70's (and 80's) bikes handle when pushed hard, but it was all we had 'back in the day' and tried various modifications to improve handling.
When something worked, we stuck with it, when something made life worse, we stopped using it real quick
 I still ride reasonable quick but I do like to find series of curves /corners and see just how quick I can go before self preservation sets in (which is why I posted video link) If you putter around at 40mph and never lean more than 5 degrees, it really doesn't matter what you do (until something goes wrong and you HAVE to make sudden direction change)

care to post a pic of your bike?

[crazypj]

i read thru this thread and there seems to be a theme.
The same people who say the fender mount is a needed part and acts like a fork brace also tend to agree that
anything other than 90/90 or less is bad for the handling perhaps dangerous
and that they all in general prefer stock unmodified bikes as a look and style

those who feel the fender does not provide any help against flex and is therefore un-needed
think a bigger tire within reason is just fine
and tend to have cafed, bobber, etc bikes or at least really like the style and looks

dare i say there is a much greater theme in all this than JUST is a fender needed on the bike....

 I don't care if it's stock or modified
 I think you'll find the people who recommend a fork brace are just a LOT more experienced and have already tried running without brace of some sort or actually ride /raced when these things were new
I know how bad 70's (and 80's) bikes handle when pushed hard, but it was all we had 'back in the day' and tried various modifications to improve handling.
When something worked, we stuck with it, when something made life worse, we stopped using it real quick
 I still ride reasonable quick but I do like to find series of curves /corners and see just how quick I can go before self preservation sets in (which is why I posted video link) If you putter around at 40mph and never lean more than 5 degrees, it really doesn't matter what you do (until something goes wrong and you HAVE to make sudden direction change)

care to post a pic of your bike?

Which one? Both my 550's are in Britain (1977F1 I've had from new and 78 or79 F2, I forget which year)
 I have few CB360's XS650's, CB350f and a 1995 Katana 600
Here's a pic with camera mounted on fork leg of Kat going into right hander, I have a couple of Go-Pro vids on 360's on You-Tube Neither pic is leaning much more than 40 degrees, got to take it easy on roads you've never seen before 


And a pic leaning right to show I swing both ways   


One of my 360's

[Rhummy]

One thing about fenderless to consider.  One of the PO's ran this bike through some sort of tar/chip sealant.  Now, it is still stuck to the underside pretty good and hard to remove.  No front fender and this sh#$ would have been all over the front of the engine.  As it is, I found some on the plug boots which were replaced.  Just something to think about, since ya never know whats over that hill lol

Otherwise, go for it.  I just had really stupid POs.

[shinyribs]

PAM no-stick cooking spray. Spray it on your engine and it'll clean off super easy. It'll hold up to 500+ degrees in the oven,you know it'll stay on the motor.Works good!

[socalenduro]

One of my 360's


That bike would look so much better without the fender.....
(kidding.... (kinda))

I like your swinging both ways joke.... well done

[OneWheelDrive]

One of my 360's


That bike would look so much better without the fender.....
(kidding.... (kinda))

I like your swinging both ways joke.... well done

Is that a speedo mounted on your forks?? Where in San Diego are you?  Let's go riding!!

[socalenduro]

sorry i erased too much of his quote, that is CRAZYPJ's bike...
however I am in San Diego, Mission Bay area.
There is a meet up ride this weeked up 101