Author Topic: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?  (Read 17930 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2006, 04:14:24 PM »
Oh,  know you "gotta ask".  Don't get me wrong - maybe I'm sounding defensive or flippant - and I sure don't mean to.  I'm a bit mad at myself for not following my (usually spot on) intuition on this one.  And, as has always been the case, I'm deeply appreciative of anything you (and the others) have to say regarding my questions.  I'm appreciative of your back up info and links too.

Yeah, and I was going to say that one of the positive things about working with this DOT 5 stuff is that it is a lot more benign than the DOT 3.  As in - I guess if one's going to be messing with their brake system - better the DOT 5 than the other.  It's also why I want to be pretty sure it's the fluid causing the problem(s) before I take the chance and swap back to DOT 3.  I'd be in worse trouble if I had to do all this monkeying around with DOT 3.

As for the paint - yeah, the caliper looked really pretty for the first month or so.  Now it's got so many nicks and marks on it from the seemingly endless work I've been doing on it that I know I'd be better off with corrosive contents that I never had to open rather than gentle contents that apparently don't work.

Okay now I'm rambling ....



Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2006, 04:26:43 PM »
Oops, Sorry.

Guess I hit a nerve :o.

Hope things get better for you.

Peace,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2006, 04:38:38 PM »
Peace, for sure.

I'm just not communicating very well.

You're help is invaluable.  If not for your posts I'd be finding out the hard way about a lot of stuff (most recently - the Syl-Crap stuff guys are misguidedly using in the caliper pucks).

I also wouldn't have found out about zinc chromate, and how that works.  (I did redo the insides of both of my rims - they looked like a million bucks when I put the tires back on and I'll let you all know how they look when I change both tires in a few months.)

All your posts regarding charging systems, and how the electrics on a bike work - all that stuff was terrific and really helped me make my bike safer and more fun and enjoyable to ride.


eldar

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2006, 04:55:42 PM »
I used a brake assembly grease from advance auto. Dont remember the exact name of it but It has worked real well and was $1 for a small packet large enough to do probably 3 calipers. Even in 90+ degree days, it has not run when in traffic and using the brake.

All I can say is that I have found nothing wrong with synthetic brake fluid. Works just as good as dot3 ever has for me so I have no reason to switch back.

Everyone has their own experience though. I would not trust the US military waste machine much though. I have known some of their "mechanics". Needless to say, they could not wrench their way out of a paper bag. But you must also remember that ther eis NOTHING on this earth that works for EVERY application. you must do your own thing in the end, you can however, get as many opinions as you want to help you come to your decision. That is only smart.

Offline jtb

  • An unlikely
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,499
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2006, 06:37:01 PM »
Zane,

I did the DOT 5 switch 2 years ago when I rebuilt both front and rear.  Works fine, and no problems.

John
1977 CB750F
1985 V65 Sabre
1986 VFR 750 (gone but missed greatly)

Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2006, 08:13:47 PM »
I still consider it good news when I hear positive brake fluid switch stories.

John, what's your bike - a 400F too?  If not, do the other Honda sohc (and dohc bikes, for that matter) all have similar brake caliper assemblies (in principle)?  That is, do they all have a bore, a piston, and a soft-material o-ring of some sort?

Does anyone run that Lincoln LS "aftermarket" piston with DOT 5 in their disc brake?  I heard somewhere (here, I think) that the Lincoln piston is a couple of thousandths of an inch smaller, and ran in (through) the o-ring better....  What's up with that?  Good - bad - indifferent?

And hcritz - I can't figure out what that PFTE Teflon stuff is.  Help - I'd like to try it.  Is it an engine additive?  I'll google it and see what comes up.


Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2006, 08:23:41 PM »
Oh - I see.......

It's PTFE.  Comes in stuff like Slick 50. 

Gosh, if it works in my master cylinder - that would make that stuff good for something ....

Offline csendker

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,718
  • Chris; '75 CB550 & a Crusty 'ol boat
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2006, 08:37:40 PM »
Quote
Does anyone run that Lincoln LS "aftermarket" piston

Not quite yet.  My once-sticky brakes are currently behaving themselves.  But I have sitting on my bench right now: a completely cleaned & painted caliper, brand new seal, a brand new phenolic piston, new brake lines - OEM-like, not braided, a jug of DOT3 & a jug of DOT5.  I'm looking for some damn crush gaskets and still thinking about a speed bleeder.  Decisions, decisions, decisions, hmmmmmmmmmmm.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 08:39:15 PM by csendker »
Actually runs --> 1975 CB550-K1
Projects ---> Crusty old boat
Gallery --> http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/Christopher/?g2_navId=xada3c7ff

Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2006, 08:42:01 PM »
Impressive Chris!

What's currently in your "currently behaving" system - 3 or 5?

Offline csendker

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,718
  • Chris; '75 CB550 & a Crusty 'ol boat
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2006, 08:51:49 PM »
It better be DOT3 because that's what I used when I drained & rebled it this spring. 

I swapped bars from low-rise back to stock - hurtin' back syndrome.  I never realized the PO had a shorty brake line on the upper for the low-rise bars, so in a panic I tossed on an old set of regular lines I had lying around just to get me back up.  But they are old and will need replacing soon.

Since then, I looked into it and thought DOT5 was the cat's meow, thus the bottle on my bench.  But now I'm not as sure...

Oh, and simply flush & replace & bleed made a world of difference.
Actually runs --> 1975 CB550-K1
Projects ---> Crusty old boat
Gallery --> http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/Christopher/?g2_navId=xada3c7ff

Offline mick750F

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,395
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2006, 04:46:46 AM »
   Last fall I did a complete rebuild of all three calipers and the front mc. The rear mc is fairly new so I didn't bother with a rebuild, just a thorough cleaning. All three front brake lines were also replaced with stainless.  Failure of the front mc piston boot is mostly what prompted the work but age of the components weighed heavily also. Previous to all this work I'd been running DOT5 on some trusted advice that it was God's gift to braking. I took the opportunity to switch back to DOT4. All re-used parts were soaked in and flushed with denatured alcohol. After that they were flushed with denatured alcohol. After that...denatured alcohol. Since then I've put many miles on the bike and there have been no problems with the brakes.

Mike
'
Glosta, MA
It's not the heat...it's the humanity.

Offline jtb

  • An unlikely
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,499
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2006, 04:57:17 AM »
Hey Zane,

I really like your little add-on pics.  Anyway, my bike is a 77 CB750F.  When I rebuilt the calipers, I kept the old pistons, replaced the seal ring, dust boot, and the dust covers on the pins.  (Plus new pads, of course).  I also put kits in both masters.  The brakes have 2 years and 1300 miles on them, no drag, no problems.  I'm thinking about going to stainless hoses, but will stick with DOT5.

John
1977 CB750F
1985 V65 Sabre
1986 VFR 750 (gone but missed greatly)

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2006, 05:13:57 AM »
ladies and gentlemen,just to let it be known,i am a dot 5 disciple.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline hcritz

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 390
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2006, 07:08:55 AM »
Hey Zane...
Sorry so late...wasn't online last night.
Yep...the Teflon stuff comes in engine additive...just don't put any in your engine!!! Would ruin the clutch I suspect.
My 64 covair Spyder had the problem with strange peddle feel...was inconsistent...found the master wasn't returning all the way...the Teflon took care of that...nice peddle now same spot every time.
I would be worth the try...
Does your brake handle snap back all the way when you release it??? Wouldn't hurt to also check the tiny bleed hole in the M.C. too...
They can stop up easily and cause problems.

T-T...yep most of the crud in the caliper was just thirty year old brake fluid grunge...but there was some corrosion too...the typical aluminum oxide stuff under the seal and a bit of pitting on the outer part of the caliper. I would guess from moisture...the Silicone grease must do a pretty good job...but a dust boot would make it less prone to problems. I shouldn't complain...it's an almost 30 year old bike and I doubt that the caliper had ever been cleaned
I haven't had any problems with the sylglide...seems to stay in place fine...I've put 3000 miles on the bike in the last two months.
I don't ride and brake like a racer...but have been in some pretty heavy, fast city stop and go stuff...have to get on the brakes pretty hard...no drips and the pads are clean...Maybe if I got some on the pads they would quit their incessant squealing!<G>!
That drives me nuts!!!

Duck

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2006, 07:54:33 AM »
Bob - I found it by getting the list of distributors for Dow Corning that operate in my area.  I started calling them and by the eighth call I found a company who would sell me a single tube.

The DOW internal product number for the stuff is 1597418.  I gave that number to the order desk at BDI (the Bearing Distribution company who I called eighth) and up it popped on his computer.

And one more thing - if it becomes troublesome finding it, go to the DOW website and use the "live chat" feature.  (I know what you're thinking, but it's not that kind of live chat - silicone or no silicone so to speak....).  That service was the determining factor in helping me find the stuff.

Good luck ....

Fisher Scientific Carries this grease. Look up hight vacuum silicone grease. Same DOW PN. $30/5.4 Oz tube

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

  • This MuthaF'er is getting to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,930
  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2006, 09:14:17 AM »
Quote
Does anyone run that Lincoln LS "aftermarket" piston

Not quite yet.  My once-sticky brakes are currently behaving themselves.  But I have sitting on my bench right now: a completely cleaned & painted caliper, brand new seal, a brand new phenolic piston, new brake lines - OEM-like, not braided, a jug of DOT3 & a jug of DOT5.  I'm looking for some damn crush gaskets and still thinking about a speed bleeder.  Decisions, decisions, decisions, hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Shouldn't you be able to get the crush gaskets at Honda?
Thinking about Speed Bleeder????  Don't think about it - DO IT !!! I just did front and rear on my 75 750F. Really sweet. The stainless looks nice on my freshly painter caliper. It will only take 3 days to get to you...........
Jerry
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2006, 09:24:19 AM »
i dont know why no one can find the gaskets,its just a 10 mm and we used to carry them at the auto parts store i used to work at.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Bodi

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,701
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2006, 10:26:04 AM »
I cleaned out the hoses and castings with isopropyl alcohol then brake cleaner spray, the non-flammable type. I wanted to take apart the switch T and clean the innards really well but I put a LOT of torque on the switch without loosening it so I gave up rather than break it off.
I want to get a single line from MC to caliper and a banjo switch which I hope will make bleeding a bit more effective. I haven't found one that has the flare (?) fitting for the caliper yet.

Offline ohiocaferacer

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 616
  • www.OHIOCAFERACERS.com
    • OHIO CAFE RACERS
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2006, 10:32:50 AM »
Dont know if this has been posted yet.....but here is a good read on DOT5 vs. DOT3

http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint1.shtml

Later,
Greg

Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2006, 02:04:01 PM »
Thanks everyone.

I like to think that if I knew then (when I switched from DOT 3 to DOT 5) what I know now, I wouldn't take the risk.  Really, it's mainly the one thing I didn't know - i.e. how difficult it is to successfully swap back (or away from DOT 5).

I'll give the DOT 5 thing another try (a la hcritz's suggestions).  If I'm still knackered I'll consider taking the same path as Bodi.  I'll clean everything as best as I can, replace all the rubber I possibly can, and then (and I really don't much like using this technique in my profession or my motorcycle hobby) I'll pray.

One thing I do know for certain is that without all you guys's input for me here, I'd be a lot further behind than where I'm at now.

Oh yeah - I also found out you can get that Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease directly from the BDI building at 6232 Tomken Rd. in Brampton.  (Just east off the 410 on Courtney Park, and then south a block on Tomken.  All in I paid $19.00 Canadian bucks for a what looks like a lifetime supply tube.  (Assuming I get my brake problems ironed out before 2010.)  The phone number there is 905 238-3392.


Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2006, 02:35:14 PM »
I wonder, did you use VarSol to flush/clean the system prior to DOT5 intro?

From the link OCR posted (I remember reading that some time ago, BTW) :

"The single most common brake system failure caused by a contaminant is swelling of the rubber components (piston seals etc.) due to the introduction of petroleum based products (motor oil, power steering fluid, mineral oil etc.) A small amount is enough to do major damage. Flushing with mineral spirits is enough to cause a complete system failure in a short time."

Isn't Varsol a petroleum product?  I'm NOT trying to assign blame here, just discover root cause and help give you confidence in your current approach.

Personally, I like to know why something failed that shouldn't have.

Best regards,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline csendker

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,718
  • Chris; '75 CB550 & a Crusty 'ol boat
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2006, 04:12:13 PM »
Quote
Shouldn't you be able to get the crush gaskets at Honda?
Quote

I suppose, or maybe a real cycle shop.  I've only tried the usual auto parts stores and they just look at me like I'm from Mars.  My 'no rush' policy has lengthened as I continue to ponder 3 vs. 5, or until my brakes start acting up again.  Or that new monster Honda playtoy dealer that's about 5 miles from my house finally opens up.  :D

Quote
Thinking about Speed Bleeder?  Don't think about it - DO IT !!!
Quote

Oddly enough, after a 20 year hiatus from any form of wrenching, I bled the system with the OEM bleeder in about 10 minutes flat.  Considering I've only worked on cars, I was in heaven with just the thought of only having to reach down to bleed and do it all solo, no help required.
Actually runs --> 1975 CB550-K1
Projects ---> Crusty old boat
Gallery --> http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/Christopher/?g2_navId=xada3c7ff

Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2006, 04:31:28 PM »
Well TT, I'd like to say I did use varsol when I cleaned initially, but I did manage to get to the point where I found out about the alcohol thing.  So that's what I used.

What I didn't do correctly, for sure, was use the proper grease in the puck(s) area.

I also don't really have a feel for how clean (and how to clean) the inside of the master cylinder resevoir.  A real fine grit sandpaper, or what?

I'm just on my way out to Canadian Tire to get some of the Teflon stuff recommended by hcritz for cleaning out the cylinder piston.  I'll drain, clean, refil and bleed again and see what the brake Gods are up to with me after that.

Another positive is that, despite periodic and somewhat intense frustration, I'm learning.  Also, if not for these current problems with the caliper piston not retracting, I wouldn't have learned about using a proper grease (or the reasons for using grease in that spot) for the pad pucks.

Yeah, I'd like to be able to not only fix the problem, but to know what the heck it was I did specifically, to fix it.

Also, one thing I didn't mention (because at first I didn't think it was related or relevant) - the moving pad was wedged at an angle when I first took the caliper apart.  It was one of those that needed filing to fit properly into the caliper.  I removed it, reduced it a bit more, and when I replaced it, it seemed to be fine - no more tendency to wedge.  I reassembled everything as per Two Tired's instructions (on another post) except for the grease - I used the Syl - Crap stuff.  It worked great at first, but then quickly went back to it's default - no retraction mode.  The puck has stayed straight, however.  

I'm tempted to do just one thing at a time, so that I know what it is I do IF I manage to get it working properly.

Conceptually now - I'm in this spot - keep working at getting the DOT 5 working (since there's so much informed opinion regarding the likely futility of simply compounding the problem further by returning to DOT 3.

First I'll put some proper grease around the pucks and try again.

If that doesn't do it I'll drain, pop the caliper piston, clean the seal groove again (brass brush on a Dremmel), and have a good close look at the o-ring.  If the o-ring is swollen I'll abort the DOT 5 route, strip the whole works off the bike, clean it, clean it and then reinstall with DOT 3.

If the o-ring is good I'll put it back together, then fill and bleed.  If that doesn't work, I'll drain the master cylinder and try the Teflon stuff, refill, bleed and see what I see.

After that I'm not sure there's anything else to do on the DOT 5 front, so I'll go the change back route.

I'm open to suggestions though.


Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2006, 04:49:16 PM »
I wasn't clear above, here.  The moving puck wasn't stuck at an angle, but it had been wearing at an angle.  (Very slight.)  As in the brake still came mostly off when I released the lever - just not as off as I think it's suppossed to....

Zane

  • Guest
Re: How do I clean DOT 5 from my brake system?
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2006, 07:38:41 PM »
Okay, this is pretty embarrassing:  when I initially cleaned the system out for the swap, I used drug store alcohol.

I'll bet that was a mistake.  Tomorrow I'll see if I can find some denatured alcohol.

It's probably too late to make up for that goof eh?