Topic: Pod Air Filters:(

[new2bikes-again]

Hello All, just bought a 1974 CB550 on Sunday. I've been looking for a Scrambler or Brit bike for about three years, then found out I don't have that kind of money! After hours of utube and this forum, I decided to break out the MIG and build my own Cafe.

This Honda hasn't run for four years. I changed the oil and pulled the carbs (empty and sticky) and ordered rebuild kits. The boots from the air box to the carbs are Trashed! (that's why they had all that tape on them) Since I'm building a Cafe, I bought a gel battery yesterday (so I can later move it under the seat, laying down) and ordered pod air cleaners. Then today, I got on here and typed "what size pod filters for 74 cb550" and wow! You guys hate them!

I should tell you that I'm not looking to go fast. I love quick and responsive, but don't need 100mph. I just fell in love with the style and coolness of old cafe bikes. And what $500 in parts and a little metal work can do for your libido!

So, to keep the center area nice and open, (no pun intended) and not put $500 into the carbs (and more in the gas tank) could I build some kind of fancy "rail box" around the pods? Then drill holes in a special pattern that will mimick the "choking" of the stock air box? Guide me Forum!

P.S. I think I ordered the wrong pods for an 1983 550. I figured mine should be 38mm (1 1/2"), but then found they were all 43mm and 53mm and thought they must be talking about another area or measurement. Found these for a Honda CB550 and..click!
Oh how I wish I would have got on this forum first. 

thanks in advance,

[Rgconner]

CheCk this out:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=79491.0

The antipod, made by a member here. Little pricey, but what you save in pain and suffering is well worth it.

[Retro Rocket]

So, to keep the center area nice and open, (no pun intended) and not put $500 into the carbs (and more in the gas tank) could I build some kind of fancy "rail box" around the pods? Then drill holes in a special pattern that will mimick the "choking" of the stock air box? Guide me Forum!

It has nothing to do with the choking effect of the box, it is the still air the box supplies along with the proper velocity stacks that go from the carbs into the airbox. Should have read a little more...

[BrockSamson]

Hey new2bikes.  I will suggest that you do your best to get a stock airbox setup. 

Just like you I was new to the SOHC4 bikes and when I bought mine it already had pods.  It was having a lot of trouble running.  Every member here told me to put the stock airbox on and get the bike running well that way first.  I choose not to listen initially.  After lots of time and effort I finally gave in. 

Trust me when I say this:  Get the bike running in the configuration that the engineers intended first.  It will save a lot of time and headache.

[lucky]

I am not a POD hater.

You can run PODS but you will need to rejet and adjust the slide needle too.
The year of bike you have will be slightly easier to do.
There is so much on the web about this, so your job will be easier.

I would do some Google searches and find out what others have done with theirs
to help you save time and effort with the jetting. Exclude any data on the 1977-78 models because those bikes have accelerator pump systems.

If you have a 4 into 1 exhaust that is also a important consideration.

So this is what you need to know.

1974 CB550
Intake -PODS.
Exhaust?
idle jet size?
main jet size?
Needle clip position?
mixture screw turns.

[new2bikes-again]

Yes it does have the 4-1 exhaust. Seems to just be open. I was hoping to find the stock (not for this bike) duals per side. The ones that bolt together near the rear pegs. They also end at the sprocket and drum. I'm going to the Vintage Days Swap Meet here in Mid-Ohio. I'm trying not to buy too much until I go there. For now, I need to get it running enough to get my license on it. I will search each one of your suggestions this weekend before I tear into my carbs. Thanks

[faux fiddy]

So, to keep the center area nice and open, (no pun intended) and not put $500 into the carbs (and more in the gas tank) could I build some kind of fancy "rail box" around the pods? Then drill holes in a special pattern that will mimick the "choking" of the stock air box? Guide me Forum!

It has nothing to do with the choking effect of the box, it is the still air the box supplies along with the proper velocity stacks that go from the carbs into the airbox. Should have read a little more...

+1  dead air space. 

Hey new2bikes.  I will suggest that you do your best to get a stock airbox setup. 

Trust me when I say this:  Get the bike running in the configuration that the engineers intended first.  It will save a lot of time and headache.

Did you ever get pods back  on  and working or swear them off?

[BrockSamson]

I sold the VM29 carbs and the pods.  The bike pulls plenty hard enough <= 50% throttle.  Also from what I understand that pods add no measurable advantage other than that from the eyes. 

One day I might give them another shot, but I am very happy my bike is running well for the most part.  I do envy those that do not need to remove an airbox when pulling the carbs...

[cgswss]

The problem with pods is purely a tuning issue.  The big problem you have is that you don't have the bike running "right" now.  So after you overhaul your carbs the "tuning" issues may mask the real problems with the carbs.  Just so you know- I come form the other direction on "pods" in that all my experience with "stacks" comes from extensive testing on race bikes.  Belive it or not, Race bikes are easier to tune because you dealing mostly with WOT where your main jet is 90% of the tune.

Do you have any friends with small street bikes?  I'm afraid you my not have an easy to ride bike in yours until there is a lot of corrections made.  where "pod bikes" suffer the most is low speed parietal throdle driving.  If you ever rode dirt bikes is like taking a motocrosser to a trials event.  The perfect "motorcycle test" bike would be a 4stroke 250 duel purpose bike (so called "endro" bike)  Back in the day, I took my test on a trials bike.  Tester said I was the first person to go thru the whole course without ever putting my feet down <G>  And part of the test was to come to a full stop for 10 seconds then ride into a turn)  Of course that was about 50 years ago...

[Sjohnsone]

I saw one of these go up on ebay about 6 months ago.  Was pretty curious about it myself...

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h134/brycegp/Cb750%20project/IMG_1102.jpg

Are they any good? Better than pods?

If so, maybe it can help you clean up that area in the way you want to without having to use pod filters....

Anyone?

[new2bikes-again]

That's what I had in mind Sjohnsone. I'd have to try to duplicate the plastic piece in between the boots and the air box. Then have an element like that picture you posted.

[Retro Rocket]

The problem with pods is purely a tuning issue.

I cringe when i see comments like this, i picture 1000's of noobs running out to get pods only to find out its far more complicated than that. The problem is {for the 100th+ time} The bikes were designed with the air box Velocity stacks and carbs as one, you take the box away and stick on pods and it will NEVER run as good as with the stock set up, YOU NEED THE STOCK LENGTH VELOCITY STACKS to smooth out the air intake, the box supplies still air which completes the whole set up, 90% of pods are complete crap and a total waste of time, most guys think their bike runs great with pods, most guys also don't have a clue....  This is directly related to the stock carbs, different carbs can use pods but if you are really serious about a good state of tune, regardless of the bike, find pods with built in stacks or don't waste your time....

[dave500]

these are a finicky induction system,,unlike older pre smog cars where you can in fact say remove the air filter snorkel or fit an open element larger air filter and see a gain without causing any tuning dramas.

[phil71]

Yawn. Let's talk about what kind of oil he should use.

[Bodi]

"The bikes were designed with the air box Velocity stacks and carbs as one"
well...
You're imagining a lot more synergy than existed in the 70's. The carbs were tuned for the bike's factory induction and exhaust systems. Both are a compromise between the design and engineering staff, within several conflicting constraints. Then Keihin tuned carbs to work with what Honda gave them.
If Honda had designed it with open pipes and filter pods, Keihin would have supplied carbs to suit.
You can tune for excellent performance with pods.  If you want to lose the bulky airbox and octopus there are few alternatives. If you want a simple performance boost, this is not it.
You don't have Keihin's resources to do the tuning. Without an assortment of varying carb parts and a chassis dyno with EGA it is a long painstaking process.
You will need new jets, usually a few steps larger main jet and a smaller pilot jet. At the least, you will be repositioning the needle. Probably the taper will need to be changed slightly.
The biggest problem will be the slide cutout. This affects low to mid throttle, and changing it is not easy. Making it bigger is a challenging machine shop task and making it smaller is much harder. You can not get different cutout setting slides from Keihin for OEM carbs.
You can usually get really good tuning without changing slide cutout but some models are less friendly: the 500/550 is really difficult to get happy with pods.

[DavePhipps]

Some will cringe when I say this but I put my pods back on my bike and do not hate them. Yes the stock carbs with stock exhaust and stock air box work quite nicely and you will get a very smooth ride out of them. However I don't have the stock exhaust and the rubbers on my airbox leak so badly that I've switched back to pods for now. I've got a 1972 CB500 with 105 mains as opposed to 100. I'm running 40 slow jet but could go up to 41 for according to the mixture screws (.75 turns out).  Keep your airbox in a safe place just in case you chanfe your mind later, and use pods if you want. While there is a vocal group that is anti pod there are also many people here that use them.

[Retro Rocket]

You're imagining a lot more synergy than existed in the 70's. The carbs were tuned for the bike's factory induction and exhaust systems. Both are a compromise between the design and engineering staff, within several conflicting constraints. Then Keihin tuned carbs to work with what Honda gave them.

Not imagining anything at all, Honda was at the top of the heap in motorcycle development, even in the 60's, If you think the induction set up on these bikes wasn't properly engineered then i would have to disagree completely. You have a far better chance tuning pods for racing, top end only, pods are a compromise simply because they supply turbulent air and are effected by side winds rain and just don't work in all throttle positions properly/ Like i said, most people don't know how well these bikes run in the first place before making claims about pods. The amount of people that thought they were good is diminishing every day on this forum. The correct length velocity stacks are what these carbs need, and modifying the air box for more flow is easy. Pods are more often than not used because they look good....
Form over function...

[new2bikes-again]

Got the bike running last night! Went through the carbs Friday night. I noticed one of them was way out of sync. I used a bolt to set all of them to the same height. Set the mixture screws at 1 1/2 out. I did put the air box back in (and hated every minute of it). Those boots are now my worst enemy. Once it's time to move the battery and I've already taken my driving test (and inspection), then I'll find an alternative for the air box. Since the bike is new to me, I thought I'd better get it running stock, so I know what to blame if it starts acting up. I can't believe how responsive and quick it is! It's already plenty fast enough. Now to get it looking British!

I have to find a better route for the fuel line closest to the petcock. It's kinking and i have to reach down to let fuel into those two bowls every 30sec. or so.

[new2bikes-again]

Remember guys, I paid $400 for it. I have a $1000 goal. I'm at $575 right now.

[Stev-o]

Good to hear you hot it running!  Why do you want it to look British??

[new2bikes-again]

From what I can tell watching youtube videos "cafe" is pretty broad. I've seen some built with a mono shock that's a little bit of plastic away from being a crotch rocket. I've seen some Honda owners list their stock 70s bike as a cafe. When I researched (very little) what exactly a cafe was, the story seemed to point towards England. Like most custom cars and motorcycles, they're a result of Americans coming home from war and building something they seen or drove, somewhere else (choppers, bobbers, cafe).

I saw an old Triumph in a Bob Dylan documentary and thought "It doesn't look very fast, but it looks cool". Then while watching American Pickers, the guys found an old Honda Scrambler and I thought "that kinda looks like a Triumph or Norton". By the time I had realized that I couldn't afford any of those bikes or thier parts, I was already hooked and ready to build one of my own. 

 

[trueblue]

Not to seem like I'm sticking my nose where it's not wanted, but that bike is too good to cut up into a cafe, please don't do it.

[Sjohnsone]

$400 is a steal. Good for you.

[new2bikes-again]

Thanks guys. I'm open to all suggestions (that's why I'm on here). I've always loved to fix/build things as much as I like using them. I hope people don't see it as "taking another good one off the road"!

Hey trueblue, are you a GIANTS fan by any chance?

[new2bikes-again]

Sorry, I just noticed your from Australia! Probably not into American Football.