Author Topic: No spark on Cylinders 2 & 3 (Read 8694 times)

redpine · « **Reply #25 on:** May 25, 2012, 04:58:15 PM »

+1 on the kill switch theory. My trusty Hondaman manual taught me that 5 ohm coils need a resistor our your likely to burn up the connections in the switches which were designed for 3 ohm.

cgswss · « **Reply #26 on:** May 25, 2012, 06:45:47 PM »

OK, I'm a little confused... I thought you said you had 3 om coils then later you said you replaced a 5 om coil. Dose this mean you have one 5 om coil and one 3 om coil with a new module? I'm more confused about the statement regarding the bies resister.I though the "normal" coils were 5om and you heed the resister on 3 om coils.

Sorry but I'm stupid when it comes to electrical

GreenMachine · « **Reply #27 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:59:01 PM »

Thanks everyone for your consultancy. To clarify, I previously had a 3 ohm coil set which I just replaced the other day with a brand new 5 ohm coil set (as the consensus advice of the forum was 5 ohm would not draw as must juice from the battery as a 3 ohm would and a resister was needed on a 3 ohm whereas not on a 5 ohm, as 5 ohm was closer to original spec).

It's interesting, as I reflect back on my endeavors and your advice, it occurred to me that I believe the problem now very may well be my kill / starter switch as some have suggested. After fully re-charging my battery, checking and re-gapping new spark plugs (I do have spark on all 4 cylinders now, probably due to the new ignition module), draining and replacing the gas tank with new fresh gas, checking the connections of the starter and solenoid and other small verifications, I tried cranking her over once again. My initial attempt sounded promising as the starter was working for a short while and the engine tried turning over, but it did not quite make it. Honestly, it sounded as if I was trying to start the bike with the kill switch on (yes, I have done this on occasion :-) I am wondering if there is a link to the faulty starter problems and the kill switch (when I engage the starter button, sometimes it engages like normal but does not turn over the bike and just revs and revs (like the kill switch is on) and other times the starter switch barely engages and other times the starter switch is dead). I wonder if the previous 3 ohm coil did in fact over time burn out the kill switch and starter switch? My next inquiry will be just that... pulling apart the starter and kill switch housing to determine if anything is amiss.

Is there anything specific I should look for or test or will it be apparent what is wrong?

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #28 on:** May 25, 2012, 11:18:31 PM »

The contact on the kill switch will be melted and you either fix it (tough without replacement parts) or bypass it or get a used switch.
I bypassed mine, probably not the best idea in the world but hey, it's my bike.

cgswss · « **Reply #29 on:** May 26, 2012, 02:44:23 AM »

Unless I'm misunderstanding the suggestion about the kill switch... If you now have spark-wouldn't that mean the kill switch is "open" If the kill switch was a problem, couldn't you test it with just a VOM?

There is a green wire that connects to your left coil. This is an isolated ground. As many times as you have had this apart, I'm sure you have already done this, but make sure you take some sandpaper (or I use a wire wheel on a dremal) and clean that down to brass on both sides, do the same thing to the area around the screw hole on both sides and the coil mounting bracket hole. (This last you may not have to do as the coils are new and the mounting hole may be bright and shine. I would also wire brush or sand the screw on the back of the flange and remove and rust on the threads.

The (-) wire from your battery connects to the back of the engine and frame. Take that off and give it the same down to bare metal sanding on each part (frame, back of nut, both sides of wire). I don't honestly think this will "cure" your problem, but it should be done just to make sure everything is getting a good ground.

I would also go under the side plates and do the same undo,sand,remount to all of the connectors you have there as well.

I don't know if the new coils came with new wires or not (I think they do) but just to be sure, while you are cranking the bike pick up and hold each spark wire. On good wire you should not feel anything. Bad wires might give you a "tingle" and unusable wires will give you a nice little poke. With your super coils marginal wires could very well short of the frame/engine.

There is SOMETHING wrong if that starter isn't spinning that bike over like a race engine on a fresh charge. My first thought is "bad ground" somewhere. While it seems unnecessary, just for the heck of it, with the bike off, use your VOM to test from the (+) terminal on your battery to ground. (NOT the (-) cable-ground on the frame.

There is a possibility you have a bad starter motor that is drawing way too much juice- but I'm still thinking "ground"

GreenMachine · « **Reply #30 on:** May 26, 2012, 08:17:51 AM »

OK - here is the latest.

So, I did as cgswss suggested and cleaned all of my ground connections (including frame, bolts, washers, etc). They are spiffy clean now. I took apart the starter/kill switch and there does not seem to be any "melting" of any kind. As of now, the starter seems to be working more consistently and the engine is trying to turn over, but it does not want to catch. Only one pipe out of four was hot after my attempt to crank her over. Also, during my attempt to crank her over, I noticed gas coming out the overflow tubes and beginning to form a nice little puddle underneath my bike. I pulled each of the new spark plugs and each of them were black and oily (very wet), with number 4 being the worse. As such, I cleaned the plugs off with a shop towel and checked for spark. I had spark on all four plugs.

Is this what they refer to as having fouled spark plugs? Could this be my issue now? If so, is my next challenge to take down the carbs (which I have never before attempted) and give them a good cleaning? Do I have this right? Honestly, tearing down the carbs has me a bit on edge, given their sensitivity. I know, I know, owning this kind of bike requires a very good understanding of the carbs, but still, I am dreading the challenge having never touched a set of carbs before. After the tear down and cleaning, will I have to install all new gaskets? After re-install, will I need to re-sync too?

Thanks everyone for hanging in there with me. I am learning a great deal about this bike with each passing day! I am going to keep at it though because I really miss not being able to ride her (that's right... keep thinking happy thoughts).

TwoTired · « **Reply #31 on:** May 26, 2012, 10:57:32 AM »

I didn't read the whole thread. Have you done the routine 3000 mile tune up?
Air filter age?

Describe how you are checking for spark. Is it sparking at the electrodes or across the electrodes?

Spark plugs are expendable. You don't have a fresh set, because?

Are plug sooty because you've been using a lot of choke, or has someone mucked with the jetting?

Did the bike EVER run with it in it's current configuration?

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #32 on:** May 26, 2012, 11:22:02 AM »

"Tearing down" the carbs sounds daunting but isn't. I have never had to do more than remove each float bowl one at a time and remove and clean the jets. It's almost impossible to get this wrong. All this disassembly of linkages is uneeded most of the time.

GreenMachine · « **Reply #33 on:** May 26, 2012, 12:11:08 PM »

Thanks LesterPiglet, that is comforting. I think I will take your advice and start with the bowl and jet cleaning first, taking one bowl at a time.

TwoTired, I purchased the bike last July and rode her until 1st of November, then in early March I revived her and have been riding her until a few weeks ago when my problems started (all total, I probably have put maybe 1500 miles on her to date since purchase). She has run like a champ since purchase. Not sure what you mean by spark plugs are expandable nor what you mean by the question around if I have a fresh set...Yes, the spark plugs as indicated are new (I just purchased them the other day and gapped them at 7mm as per Clymer manual). No one has mucked with the carbs since I purchased the bike. I checked for spark by pulling the plug, putting the boot back on,resting the electrode on the engine cover and cranking the bike over. Spark is occurring between the gap on all four plugs. Is this not the way to check for spark? Is there a better/more scientific way? Appreciate your input.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #34 on:** May 26, 2012, 01:10:26 PM »

I think TwoTired made a typo and meant expendable.
If you have sparks you are laughing, now its a fuel problem. Clean those carbs. Good luck.

TwoTired · « **Reply #35 on:** May 26, 2012, 04:39:44 PM »

Yes, spark plugs are expendable items.

If they have black deposits on them, they aren't new anymore.

Black soot is electrically conductive. I've seen fouled plugs that arced between the center electrode and the soot coating the center insulator instead of across the gap. Yes, they sparked But, not where they should, which didn't make a reliable flame kernel.

I'd support Lester's carb cleaning direction. If it was running in this configuration before storage, it probably has some deposits in the carbs . some of which can hinder float/float valve operation. At least drop one of the outer carb bowls to see what is inside. Then decide if anything further is needed. I have cleaned/restored Cb550 carbs without even taking them off the bike. It helps to know how they work, though.

Cheers,

FYI: The tune up interval is every 3000 miles or 6 months, whichever occurs first.

cgswss · « **Reply #36 on:** May 26, 2012, 05:57:20 PM »

Green... I have a CB650 that I have just started on. Finally fixed and cleaned the tank today and put a new Battery in her today. I haven't touched the carbs yet (next on my list) But I had to see if she would run. Put gas in the tank, got her running on starter fluid then opened the gas. Lot of problems at first, but in short order she was running on all 4 on gas- took her for a fast test ride. felt great. Have a leaking float bowl-most likely a sticky float bowl needle. But I know she will run now, and will be tearing into those carbs tomorrow. Just think of me being with you all the way <G>

GreenMachine · « **Reply #37 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:24:52 PM »

Well, I just got done cleaning all 4 carbs (bowls, jets and float needles). I took the entire set off the bike to do the cleaning down my basement where it is was a heck of alot cooler than out in a hot garage! Honestly, the job was not that bad really. It kinda of reminded me of the process I use to clean my ruger 22 rifle

Slow, deliberate and with kid gloves.

The areas I inspected didn't appear to be too dirty, but I cleaned them anyway with carb cleaner and forced air. All of the floats appeared to be in operational condition (no sticking ones found) as did the float needles (all had nice spring). The main jets I noticed were 120 and the slow jets were 38 I believe. Is this the right configuration for what I have (Dyna 5 ohm coil and Dyna S ignition)? The previous configuration was the same except I had a 3 ohm coil instead (remember, I swapped out the previous Dyna 3 ohm coil for a Dyna 5 ohm coil as I thought the previous coil was faulty and most recommended the 5 ohm over the 3 ohm).

Hopefully my carb cleaning effort will pay off. If not, at the very least I now know alot more about the configuration of the lower portion of the carbs and no longer am I fearful of them!

Tomorrow I will re-install them on the bike and try cranking her over again. Will let you what happens.

cgswss, maybe I too will try the starting fluid approach. Where exactly do you spray it in the carbs? Have fun on that 650!

cgswss · « **Reply #38 on:** May 27, 2012, 01:32:35 AM »

I just take off the side cover and spray it in the intake. Nothing fancy. Of course I always take the bike outside in the drive before I do this... Just in case it blows up <G>.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #39 on:** May 27, 2012, 04:05:04 AM »

The main jet is far too big, should be #100. Are you using the standard air filter assembly?

GreenMachine · « **Reply #40 on:** May 27, 2012, 04:19:05 AM »

No, the bike has the uni foam filter pods.

GreenMachine · « **Reply #41 on:** May 27, 2012, 06:40:54 AM »

To all my consultants...I AM NOW UP AND RUNNING LIKE NEVER BEFORE!!!!!!!! Operation "clean carbs" worked! The GreenMachine has honestly never sounded so good and run so well. I had the time of my life just now crusin the back roads. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU OF COURSE!

Happy trails my fellow CB riders.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #42 on:** May 27, 2012, 07:05:03 AM »

Good news. Enjoy.

bluezboy · « **Reply #43 on:** May 27, 2012, 07:30:03 AM »

Green, I 'm glad you're up and running now, but when I read that you have a Dyna on your bike, it got my attention. I went through pure hell for a while with a Dyna on my bike. After about a 16 months, the new Dyna began to act up, dropping cylinders when it got to hot under the points plate. I must have had a lemon Dyna, because others here have had good luck with them, but I was so damn fed up with it that I switched back to points, kept the Dyna coils, and my bike will fire up on the first kick. So, down the road IF your bike begins to drop cylinders, I'd look at that Dyna. Pamco makes a better unit that will handle the heat better. Good luck and enjoy your bike!

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Author Topic: No spark on Cylinders 2 & 3 (Read 8694 times)