Author Topic: Cafe Project, few questions... (Read 9319 times)

kidrcth · « **on:** May 27, 2012, 11:27:22 AM »

i have recently purchased a 1977 cb750f bike minus- motor, forks, tank, and seat.

I have stripped the frame and am ready to send it and the wheels to the powder coater.

i have a few questions. I purchased a 1972 Cb750 engine. is there much difference? other then performance, im not caring. will it bolt up?

its going to be purely economical, but look amazing. Benji's Cafe Racer fiberglass seat and tank are going to be placed on order soon.

thanks guys more questions im sure will arise.

thanks,
Shane

CafeDawg · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2012, 12:08:56 PM »

I just did a quick search but try multiple google searches and you can probably get better answers. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=98823.0. Should work. Also do a search on Benji's stuff, haven't been reading the best reviews lately, economically speaking knee denting your own tank would be the way to go.
Welcome to the forum

Respect
CD

chewbacca5000 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2012, 12:22:29 PM »

First welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new bike! Sounds like an exciting project. Yes, the 72 has more power and will bolt right in. Provided you have all the bolts. The search is right above the home link and will help out a ton. The FAQ section also has advice on installing the engine. If you are doing the whole thing from scratch and painting the frame putting a bare frame on the engine is the easiest way from what I have heard.

Good luck and we like pictures.

kidrcth · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2012, 12:34:16 PM »

thank you much. i tried to search. guess i didnt use the best keywords.

as far as the benji's issues, i am quite willing to take the risk. its expensive, but his parts really make a bike. besides, i dont have a tank to dent, haha.

this project will be completely from scrap. rebuilding the engine starting soon.

pic is where im starting. i have a pile of stuff i no longer need tho...

Geeto67 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2012, 09:55:24 PM »

stupid question: Why are you powdercoating first?

if it were me I would save the cosmetics till last. Why? well.....if this were really a custom intent on being a vintage performance bike and not some puddle cruiser at the fair grounds I would probably figure out a few things that would require welding on the frame. For starters I would install a frame kit to make servicing the engine easier, I think gordon still makes them. Then I would probably brace the frame, nothing major, just a few extra gussets. third I would probably figure out rearsets, which means custom rear set brackets. again were it me I would probably run a modded gs1100 swingarm in there to get an alloy arm and keep the rear disc config that a 77F would normally have, and since I wouldn't be tied to stock pieces using modern sport bike rearsets would be as easy as welding a tab and bolting on.

when doing a ground up project, cosmetics should always be last. Build the bike twice - the first time to make sure it all works and lines up and the second time to make it pretty.

just bolting a bunch of crap on a stock bike doesn't really give you much other than a bitsa that impresses the bike show attendees. Building something that rides great impresses yourself every time your ride and really adds to the satisfaction of owning a bike. the question is who is more important?

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2012, 11:55:13 PM »

Quote

as far as the benji's issues, i am quite willing to take the risk.

I would be more inclined to listen to the feedback, one member here decided to slightly reshape the cafe seat and tank only to find more bondo than on the average car smash repair, if you are paying good money then i would suggest buying better quality stuff, bondo isn't expensive, at Benji's prices i would expect far better workmanship. I think someone said that the tanks were made in the Phillipines {where they are filled with bondo} then sent back to Benji, that would account for the cost. If i find the thread with the pics of the tank and seat pan i will link them here, it was quite appalling quality.....

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=83097.50

Check the first 3 or 4 pages of the thread in the link....

matt mattison · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2012, 03:01:34 AM »

+1 to what what advice Geeto and Retro just gave you for free. If you stick your head in the sand and look only at Benjies stuff you might not be happy later on with the product. But hey, at least you paid extra for an education. Look at Roc City Cafe Racer's stuff too. You actually get to deal with the guy who makes your parts and reasonably priced too. Your not gonna have the bike on the road until next spring at this point anyway, if your going to do it right (IMHO). Might as well slow it down and do it right, you will be much happier with yourself and the finished product.

cgswss · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2012, 03:23:58 AM »

I have to send the same suggestions. Get the whole bike together with every thing mounted and working BEFORE you do power coat and paint.

I would strip the frame so you can confirm there are no repairs to the frame, then just spray it with some rattle-can primer to keep it from rusting. You will be doing so many things to that frame in the coming months that you will scrape the crap out of it plus you should be doing some welding on it before you are done.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2012, 03:50:54 AM »

I own a few benjie pieces. A headlight speedo combo and one of the first seats he made in steel for a K bike. As far as the fiberglass headlight shell goes the one I got wasn't a finished piece but wasn't full of bondo either. it did show all the flaws of a handmade piece (nothing was 100% lined up) but I consider that charm. All in all it was better than I could have done in my garage and worth the price.

the metal seat however is all steel and probably the heaviest thing I have ever seen called a seat for a motorcycle. I bought it second hand and it looks like one of the first ones he made. The round taillight he uses is a trailer one you can find at autozone. the best thing that seat has going for it is that it is sturdy as hell. Again no bondo that I can see.

were it me buying a tank and seat combo I would buy a steel or aluminum tank and a fiberglass seat. Fiberglass tanks are really racing tanks, sure they won't dent but denting is a safety feature. If you have an accident i am sure you would rather have a tank that dents and still hold fuel rather than lying in a pool of gasoline spilling out from crack in a fiberglass one. However for what you will pay for benjie's combo you could have roccity make you an alloy one - hand made and polished.

chewbacca5000 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2012, 05:06:14 AM »

Quote from: Geeto67 on May 28, 2012, 03:50:54 AM

I own a few benjie pieces. A headlight speedo combo and one of the first seats he made in steel for a K bike. As far as the fiberglass headlight shell goes the one I got wasn't a finished piece but wasn't full of bondo either. it did show all the flaws of a handmade piece (nothing was 100% lined up) but I consider that charm. All in all it was better than I could have done in my garage and worth the price.

the metal seat however is all steel and probably the heaviest thing I have ever seen called a seat for a motorcycle. I bought it second hand and it looks like one of the first ones he made. The round taillight he uses is a trailer one you can find at autozone. the best thing that seat has going for it is that it is sturdy as hell. Again no bondo that I can see.

were it me buying a tank and seat combo I would buy a steel or aluminum tank and a fiberglass seat. Fiberglass tanks are really racing tanks, sure they won't dent but denting is a safety feature. If you have an accident i am sure you would rather have a tank that dents and still hold fuel rather than lying in a pool of gasoline spilling out from crack in a fiberglass one. However for what you will pay for benjie's combo you could have roccity make you an alloy one - hand made and polished.

You mean like this.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2012, 06:22:09 AM »

I may have missed it but I dont think anyone mentioned the output shaft differences. Cycle x sells ofset sprocket you may need if you run an early engine with a lat model wheel.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2012, 08:55:37 AM »

I don't think the dude has a wheel, or the idea of which wheel he even wants yet....for a bike built out of bits there certainly isn't a lot of planning going on.

kidrcth · « **Reply #12 on:** June 03, 2012, 10:59:09 AM »

i have the mag wheels for the 77 cb750f

kidrcth · « **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2012, 11:05:28 AM »

well guys, frame has been prepped and sent to powder coat. as far as now, i had already cut off all mounting tabs i wont need, and any repairs needed to be made to the frame wont be a problem. i will still need to weld the rear hoop to the tail. nbd in my opinion.

The benji's tank/seat combo already ordered.

heres where im at now,
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107750.0

i am trying to stay mostly stock, none of us are honda engineers, so... as original as i can stay im going to. this bike will be a rider, not a bike show queen. so the honda engineering did these bikes well 30 years ago, it should still do fine now.

kidrcth · « **Reply #14 on:** June 03, 2012, 11:10:41 AM »

and worrying about falling and gas spilling from a fiberglass tank...

have any of you ever fallen? how many of you have responded to accidents? that fuel never ignites and is almost more a spell nuisance then anything.

if i spill on this bike... well pretty sure ill have more #$%* to worry about

singedebile · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2012, 11:58:26 AM »

thats why they make tanks out of steel, you bump into it and it bends it doesn't crack like fiberglass.

Its true gas wont ignite on its own, but but smallest spark will due.. and it can come from more places then you can think of.

I've personally "laid my bike down" two or three times....

kidrcth · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2012, 12:33:59 PM »

yikes... ive been down... never going down again...

Geeto67 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2012, 01:03:28 PM »

Quote from: kidrcth on June 03, 2012, 11:10:41 AM

and worrying about falling and gas spilling from a fiberglass tank...

have any of you ever fallen? how many of you have responded to accidents? that fuel never ignites and is almost more a spell nuisance then anything.

if i spill on this bike... well pretty sure ill have more #$%* to worry about

I have had two accidents, one on a fat boy and one on my k5 750. On the k5 accident I ended up covered in gasoline that leaked out the top of the cap when the bike was on its side. This is exactly why all mfgs redesigned their caps in 1977 - they were getting sued in the US for a lot of gas spilled at accidents.

Fire is the least of your worries, gas burns when it gets into road rash, a lot. Contaminates the wound too and sepsis isn't far behind. I was a firefighter for 5 years, saw a lot of mc accidents. The cleanup on old bikes was always worse than newer stuff.

However, accidents and such are the least of your worries. De-tabbed the frame of a bike you have never seen built? WTF? I would love to know what tabs you thought unnecessary. Sent it to powdercoat without a mockup? Lame. You have officially stacked the deck against yourself.

Post a pic of what you thought was a frame ready for powder coating, I haven't had a good laugh in a few days.

tory b · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2012, 01:07:20 PM »

When it comes to steel/aluminum versus fiber glass keep in mind the negative effects of ethanol on fiberglass.
Its getting harder and harder to get away from 15% ethanol blend and it been reeking havoc on fiberglass tanks weather it be bikes or boats.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2012, 01:11:46 PM »

Quote from: kidrcth on June 03, 2012, 11:05:28 AM

well guys, frame has been prepped and sent to powder coat. as far as now, i had already cut off all mounting tabs i wont need, and any repairs needed to be made to the frame wont be a problem. i will still need to weld the rear hoop to the tail. nbd in my opinion.

The benji's tank/seat combo already ordered.

heres where im at now,
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107750.0

i am trying to stay mostly stock, none of us are honda engineers, so... as original as i can stay im going to. this bike will be a rider, not a bike show queen. so the honda engineering did these bikes well 30 years ago, it should still do fine now.

I just want to confirm this so it is clear in my head - you are powder coating, yet you have a lot of welding to do left, so you are going to strip and re powdercoat later on? You know you can't "touch up" powder coating, right? It has to be stripped and redone again later. Also it isn't the easiest stuff to get off and you can't weld through it. You wasted your money.

Also, either a bike is custom or it is stock. You can't really have a stock-ish custom because once you modify something it is no longer stock. But more importantly there has been 30 years of racing development that has trickled down to performance street bikes that you are completely ignoring. You are just restyling a stock bike and that's kinda lame. Tv Chopper lame.

Best of luck, you'll need every inch of it.

kidrcth · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2012, 01:47:37 PM »

well guys... we are all entitled to out $.02...

im building a bike.. the way i want to

lucky · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2012, 02:00:39 PM »

The 1977 engine had more improvements than any of the other CB750 engines.
About 21 improvements. Think hard about that.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2012, 02:05:27 PM »

Quote from: kidrcth on June 03, 2012, 01:47:37 PM

well guys... we are all entitled to out $.02...

im building a bike.. the way i want to

just like the new crop of "cafe poser", knows it all without ever having done it before and has no concept of the value of sage advice. Enjoy posing in the starbucks parking lot.

kidrcth · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2012, 02:10:04 PM »

Quote from: lucky on June 03, 2012, 02:00:39 PM

The 1977 engine had more improvements than any of the other CB750 engines.
About 21 improvements. Think hard about that.

i looked hard.. the frame i bought didnt come with the option to even get the engine..

kidrcth · « **Reply #24 on:** June 03, 2012, 02:13:58 PM »

Quote from: Geeto67 on June 03, 2012, 02:05:27 PM

Quote from: kidrcth on June 03, 2012, 01:47:37 PM
well guys... we are all entitled to out $.02...

im building a bike.. the way i want to

just like the new crop of "cafe poser", knows it all without ever having done it before and has no concept of the value of sage advice. Enjoy posing in the starbucks parking lot.

i dont know what a cafe poser is. i sure could be one. i just want a cafe bike. thats it. no nastalgia here. just a cafe bike that looks good. Ill putt it around whenever i want to.

i might see on Monday if getting the frame just sand blasted is ok... but im fine with it as it stands... sand blasting was 75... and powdercoating it was 125... whats that, $50 wasted? ill be ok if i cant stop the process...

and when it comes to keeping the bike stockish... yeah ill do it. the motor will be rebuild, not modified. original brake systems. im not going to try to hotrod a bike that i would like to ride around. im an aircraft electrician, the wiring harness will be done to nav-sea standards that far exceed what honda could have done. but other then that. id like to be able to say i peiced this bike together, located all the parts and repaired if neccessary. thats it guys.

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Author Topic: Cafe Project, few questions... (Read 9319 times)