Author Topic: Cafe Project, few questions...  (Read 9551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline srbakker

  • Spam & Eggs
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 550
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2012, 02:19:09 PM »
Give the guy a break.  Also working on my first build, and boy, have I screwed up a lot of things that I learned about afterwards.  Some because I didn't research thoroughly enough, some that somebody pointed out to me afterwards.  And sometimes, people here have helped me out immensely before I could screw something up. 

If this guy is here asking for advice and reading and bothering to learn, let's not collectively chase him away, hmm?  Worst case scenario, he does something wrong and has to fix it. For me, anyway, I'd say it's part of the process.  Especially on one's first build.
1975 CB750 K5
2007 Triumph Tiger
2007 Triumph Speed Triple
1971 Kawasaki F7 175 Enduro
2000 Honda VFR800 (gone but not forgotten)

Offline 03rangerxlt

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 112
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2012, 02:21:38 PM »
When I first purchased my bike, I went ahead and purchased the Benjie's tank and seat, and then tore into the bike.  I love the looks at the Benjie's stuff, but the quality is just a bit lacking.  I can't get my gas cap to work worth a damn.  The latch is too close to the cap and keeping it from latching properly.  I don't know how I'm going to fix this, and returning it is not going tobe an option because its been almost 2 years since I purchased it.

As far as powder coating the frame and then modding it...  Its going to either look like junk because you can't fix powder coat, or its going to cost you money to have the frame stripped and re-coated.

Quote
just like the new crop of "cafe poser", knows it all without ever having done it before and has no concept of the value of sage advice. Enjoy posing in the starbucks parking lot.

I kinda fall in the cafe poser group.  My CB500 is my first bike.  I love the style and building it has taught me so much.  But, my bike has been built on nothing but advice!  And I wont discount good advice, its worth more than good parts.
1972 Honda CB500 Cafe "The War Eagle"

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,822
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2012, 03:43:46 PM »
How can you want something when you don't know what it is?

Choppers are built with an asthetic in mind and function a secondary consideration. Sport bikes, adventure bikes, touring bikes, and cafe racers are all bikes built toward a purpose. Sure you get the guys who screw up all manner of other bikes with asthetic doo dads (neons, lowering kits, a million lights) but those aren't guys using their bike as a motorcycle, they are using it as a fashion accessory. if you build it right, the bike will reward you with a satisfying ride as well as a satisfying look.

To put it in automotive terms: Don't be the dude who puts Lamborghini doors on a clapped out Honda civic - be the dude who auto-x a Honda civic.
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2012, 03:52:26 PM »
Quote
i might see on Monday if getting the frame just sand blasted is ok... but im fine with it as it stands... sand blasting was 75... and powdercoating it was 125... whats that, $50 wasted? ill be ok if  i cant stop the process...

How did you come to that conclusion, $75+ $125= $200, weld the frame and destroy the powder coat and its $200 all over again, so that would be $400 spent. Just get the frame blasted, do all the welding THEN get it powdercoated......
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,822
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2012, 04:22:44 PM »
Give the guy a break.  Also working on my first build, and boy, have I screwed up a lot of things that I learned about afterwards.  Some because I didn't research thoroughly enough, some that somebody pointed out to me afterwards.  And sometimes, people here have helped me out immensely before I could screw something up. 

If this guy is here asking for advice and reading and bothering to learn, let's not collectively chase him away, hmm?  Worst case scenario, he does something wrong and has to fix it. For me, anyway, I'd say it's part of the process.  Especially on one's first build.

I am giving the guy a break, I'm giving him advice for free on the Internet that I had to learn the hard way sweating it out in un-air conditioned hot as balls shops with curmudgeon-y old timers. He should be thankful for the honesty, the world is full of people who stroke your ego just for the sake of avoiding making waves, people that tell you like it is are few and far between.
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline kidrcth

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2012, 07:20:32 PM »
Quote
i might see on Monday if getting the frame just sand blasted is ok... but im fine with it as it stands... sand blasting was 75... and powdercoating it was 125... whats that, $50 wasted? ill be ok if  i cant stop the process...

How did you come to that conclusion, $75+ $125= $200, weld the frame and destroy the powder coat and its $200 all over again, so that would be $400 spent. Just get the frame blasted, do all the welding THEN get it powdercoated......

clearly u missunderstood... $75 to sandblast alone...  $125 to sandblast and powdercoat...

hey... i work in equally harsh to  more harsh conditions then most...

15 months in iraq and i live in florida... its hot and heavy all time... lessons are learned.

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2012, 12:59:56 AM »
Quote
clearly u missunderstood... $75 to sandblast alone...  $125 to sandblast and powdercoat...

Thats pretty cheap.... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline kidrcth

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2012, 06:41:21 AM »
Quote
clearly u missunderstood... $75 to sandblast alone...  $125 to sandblast and powdercoat...

Thats pretty cheap.... ;)

commercial price through the company i work for. i guess its a littler cheaper.



However i was able to call this morning and ask them to hold off on powdercoating the frame. so... ill be able to get a few more things done before i powder coat it.

Offline 03rangerxlt

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 112
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 09:15:29 AM »
Quote
clearly u missunderstood... $75 to sandblast alone...  $125 to sandblast and powdercoat...

Thats pretty cheap.... ;)

commercial price through the company i work for. i guess its a littler cheaper.



However i was able to call this morning and ask them to hold off on powdercoating the frame. so... ill be able to get a few more things done before i powder coat it.

VERY smart.  You are going to end up saving yourself a lot of headache in the long run.  And a media blasted frame will be easy to work on.

I ended up painting my frame instead of powder coating it because I simply wasn't sure if I was going to need to modify it any further.  I would have been so angry if I had to grind off any nice powder coating.
1972 Honda CB500 Cafe "The War Eagle"

Offline kidrcth

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 12:34:09 PM »
Quote
clearly u missunderstood... $75 to sandblast alone...  $125 to sandblast and powdercoat...

Thats pretty cheap.... ;)

commercial price through the company i work for. i guess its a littler cheaper.



However i was able to call this morning and ask them to hold off on powdercoating the frame. so... ill be able to get a few more things done before i powder coat it.

VERY smart.  You are going to end up saving yourself a lot of headache in the long run.  And a media blasted frame will be easy to work on.

I ended up painting my frame instead of powder coating it because I simply wasn't sure if I was going to need to modify it any further.  I would have been so angry if I had to grind off any nice powder coating.

yeah its for the better this way... the guys actually got me thinking about bracing the frame... i really dont see the point when both the front and rear suspention suck. I have an RC51 for when i want to go fast, this will just be the bike i put together myself. :)

im in the process at work of trying to fabricate an adaptor to fit my engine to my stand. i got the flat stock cut into the appropriate lengths, just need to get some bolts to weld together.

Offline jaguar

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,778
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2012, 06:38:48 AM »
You are getting good advice, just ask my about my coated unfinished project.....
Looks are fine and all to think about, but the bike needs to work as a motorcycle.
Alot of the "inspiration" bikes that new guys are looking at actually are worse motorcycles then they started with. 
Saying that they suspension sucks is stupid, sure its not a modern bike but it was great for its time and still works today.  Also just putting around is another dumb thing to say.  You are not putting when you need to avoid a car or something.  Build something that works or dont build at all.
Personally I see the whole "i have a great bike to ride fast so I dont care about the old bike im building" as a cop out.  again this is a motorcycle and not an art project

Offline cavi

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 77
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2012, 10:18:29 AM »
agreed, be careful what you change, I have had more than one bike where I made a mod that made sense when I was doing it but latter I hated it and either went back or wanted to.  Keep the purpose of your bike in mind.  for example, I used to have a SV100s that was setup to run great at the track, and it did, but it was not too great on anything that was not a perfectly paved twistie.  Where as with my 78 750f it does great on the backroads where the SV would have sucked, and while I considered lowering it, I decided against this as it would affect how compliant it was on the backroads which is where I want it to live!!  Same with the seat, while I want the cafe look, one of the fiberglass pans with a thin pad would look great but not function as well in my real world, so the corbin seat was a compromise, decent look with great function!!

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2012, 11:44:19 AM »
The fiberglass tank is a bad idea, also not legal for road use at all.
If you plan on welding stuff to the frame do all that BEFORE you powdercoat unless you like wasting money and time.
 
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline kidrcth

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2012, 11:51:50 AM »
good news, called to powder coater to ask how much i owed for the frame since all he did was sand blast, he said as long as i bring it back, nothing... so... sweet... free sand blasting.

i do agree with ya guys about the tasteful mods. i am not going to ruin the bike. However it is my project. I plan on raising the rear to level the bike out. i like bikes with high seat heights. Bracing the frame may come this weekend, we shall see.  I like the idea of making the frame pretty solid. Upgrading the front suspention just isnt in the cards, as much as i would like to do inverted forks, its just too expensive.

It will be retro with modern attributes, all switched will be from an 07 cbr1000rr. Speedometer shall be a digital unit, but very minimalist. All electronics will stay under the tail.

I have an image in my head of finished product, im just not a good drawer. The engine will be completely rebuilt. Performance will remain stock at best im fine with that. maybe later ill get another engine and modify it, and replace this one. hell i got this engine for $125. cant really beat that.

Offline matt mattison

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2012, 12:29:57 PM »
You don't need to do modern forks to improve the front end. Progressive springs and emulators really help the suspension out a lot.
1975 CB550F
2011 MV Agusta Brutale 1090RR

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,822
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2012, 12:55:45 PM »
I highly recommend Gordon's frame kit or something like it. Sooner or later that valve cover will have to come off and not having to pull the engine to do it makes life simpler.

As far as bracing in concerned the ideal setup to improving handling is to tie the neck to the swingarm pivot as directly as possible. Usually this is done with one or two fillets at the joint where the forward tube of the sidecover triangle meets the frame.

As far as raising the rear, about 1" seems to be the sweet spot. Taller than that and the bike will fall into corners and any inherent head shake will be amplified.
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline jaguar

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,778
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2012, 02:23:12 PM »
Upgrading suspension does not mean slapping inverted forks on it.
While i have not ridden a bike with the gsxr swap I fail to see how it can be an improvement.

Offline lostmykeys

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 488
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2012, 02:59:21 PM »
 I dont think there's anything wrong with thinking outside of the box imagination and creativety are a what keeps the world from being a dull place.
 But on the flipside there are people who only know what they know and thats it.Sometimes you have to ask them for advice.These people are easy to identify by their lack of open mindness and most of the time they seem a little crabby.
 But most of the time you will get good solid advice from these types....so just read between the lines and stay cool and do what you want,its your project anyway. How about some pics of your progess?

Offline kidrcth

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2012, 03:35:59 PM »
explain to me the benefit of these progressive springs?

the gordons frame kit is def out of the question, for asthetic reasons. I manage a mechanic shop, and i weekend as a Army Aircraft Electrician. Taking things apart is nothing im afriad of... i enjoy a preoject.

The Bracing... as long as it is asthetic and functional... ill add it... we have welders and flat stock...

Im glad u mentioned the 1" lift.. i was going to go with like 15" springs in the rear to really lift it up... if i add a steering stabiliser will that help?

Offline matt mattison

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2012, 04:23:58 PM »
Type in "progressive front springs" in the search box and a lot of info will come up for you. I can type it all out,but I will just be repeating what people already took the time to post. As far as a steering stabilizer goes, there really isn't a downside to installing one of those. Anything that prevents a tank slapper is good.
1975 CB550F
2011 MV Agusta Brutale 1090RR

Offline kidrcth

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2012, 04:49:09 PM »
i finished fabbing my adapters for my engine stand. for $125 my engine and carb setup are clean as hell... the guy totally lost out... the carbs are especially immaculate... im going to have them professionally rebuilt tho..

do you think i got a sweet deal?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290715243051?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Offline lostmykeys

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 488
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2012, 04:57:32 PM »
 Yea,sweet deal especially with your resources!
 Keep us posted with the pics if you dont mind.

Offline kidrcth

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2012, 05:04:36 PM »
yeah the progressive springs actually arnt too expensive... hmmm... i wish i would have kept the showa front end i had like 3 months ago... went to my old buell would of been amazing for this bike.

Now i just need to see how people brace the frame.

Offline Roach Carver

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,724
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2012, 05:15:49 PM »
I think the emulators are used with straight rate springs not progressives. Consult race tech.

Offline jaguar

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,778
Re: Cafe Project, few questions...
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2012, 06:00:09 PM »
Gordon frame kit is out for looks?
Kinda funny that you would not work a mod that would help you build a bike because you dont like the look of a part you will not see.....