Topic: Why doesn't anyone make more restrictive Pods?

[Mercutiojb]

Not trying to start a flame-war here, just curious...

A few assumptions:
1 - Many people like the look of pods vs the airbox.
2 - In a stock setup, the increased airflow due to pods can cause problems.

If we're talking mostly about looks, and forgetting for a moment any issues related to rain, crosswinds, etc... Why doesn't someone simply make a filter that 'looks' like a standard pod, but is more restrictive?  Roughly equally as restrictive as the stock box (per carb anyway)

One could argue that each engine is different, and some tuning would be required... but that may be true even when using a stock airbox not original to your bike.

Maybe a standard style pod filter filled with dense foam?  Maybe a 'collar' with a screen that fits between the carb and a pod filter?

I promise I'm not trying to start a fight... it just seems to me that quite a few people just want the 'look', with out so much of the hassle.  What am I missing?

[lucky]

You are not missing anything.
The manufacturers that are reading this could do it too.
The real problem is will they make enough money to do it.

[Rigid]

You are missing the marketing aspect.  Pods look like a performance item.  They aren't but that fact is lost on the bars-seat-pods cafe crowd.  Before them it was the form over function chopper crowd.  They were into open velocity stacks.  If your new restrictive pods looked in any way different than the existing ones, they would be labeled as uncool by the crowd that assigns such labels.  Image man, image. 

[Mercutiojb]

True... I'm more surprised that no one here has done it, to be honest! I'd give it a shot myself, if I knew how to measure vacuum...

You are not missing anything.
The manufacturers that are reading this could do it too.
The real problem is will they make enough money to do it.

[Mercutiojb]

Having them look the same is the whole idea ;-)  Even to the point of an 'add-on' to a specific model of K&N filters. 

Again, I'm surprised no one has stuffed their K&N's with gauze (or something) just to keep from pulling their hair out while trying to tune / rejet / what-have-you

You are missing the marketing aspect.  Pods look like a performance item.  They aren't but that fact is lost on the bars-seat-pods cafe crowd.  Before them it was the form over function chopper crowd.  They were into open velocity stacks.  If your new restrictive pods looked in any way different than the existing ones, they would be labeled as uncool by the crowd that assigns such labels.  Image man, image.

[mono]

Again, I'm surprised no one has stuffed their K&N's with gauze (or something) just to keep from pulling their hair out while trying to tune / rejet / what-have-you

I just pictured someone with gauze all woven through the engine because it got sucked out of the pods.

[Lil Red]

It's not just about flow...airboxes organize and direct the airflow....pods do add pefromance for a racing situation where you are mostly at high rpm wot...but street riding with it's idling, and it's part throttle requirements and the need for a flatter powercurve thats preferred by most rders that arent chasing a checkered flag...and this is old school...even modern race boxes have airboxes that help pressurise incoming air...in the old days unfltered velocity stacks did the trick. With four carbs you cant have ar being gulped in willy nilly from all sides...at random pressures, which is what occurs with a pod....it's like a toilet without that vortex thats created by the bowl....now on my Guzzi which is a V-twin and produes loads of low end...I put pods on and didnt miss much...but then I found stacks that screw into the carb mouth and the pods fit over it...this cleaned up the idle and the transitions etc.

For street riding which is a comprimise of flow rates and flow speed...its best to have an airbox to try to keep things consistant to enable the execution of all these compromises, youu'd have to have a gauze that retricts more at times and less at others...or else all you get is a rich condition...

[Geeto67]

dude - you are missing the whole thing entirely.

airboxes don't work because of restriction - they work because of the (for lack of a better term) type of air they flow.

to fully understand why the question you are asking kind of answers itself, you need a good understanding of fluid dynamics. I do not possess such a level but I'll try anyway.

the volume of air isn't the issue - thus the airbox being more restrictive isn't the problem.

with an airbox the carbs have a high pressure volume of relatively still air from which to draw into the carb. The velocity stack shaped carb rubber inside the airbox assists this and the engine gest a relatively consistent supply of air. Thus tuning is easier because there are less variables for the limited parameters of the carb to deal with.

With pods you don't have that consistency. you have fast moving air at all times and only the vacuum of the engine to draw the air in with.

think of it like this: say you want to drink something with a straw,  which is easier to drink from - A full glass of water or a running faucett?

thus if you think about it the plenum of still air is what makes the airbox work and the pods flounder. I suppose I don't have to tell you that due to other designs in an engine a SOHC 750 with the airbox and a stock paper filter makes more HP than a SOHC 750 with pods - all other things being equal. A SOHC750 with a less restrictive airfilter in the stock airbox makes more power than both.

there was a guy on DTT who figured out if you replaced the bottom of the stock airbox with pods you get the look of pods and more or less the functionality of a plenum. It looked better than stock and worked better than pods but it was still a compromise.

the velocity stack shape of the carb to airbox rubber helps a great deal in directing and smoothing out airflow (believe it or not there is a whole science to the shape of a velocity stack), maybe you should be asking why someone isn't making a pod filter with a velocity stack shaped intake instead of just the board with a hole cut in it shape you have now?

[lucky]

Again, I'm surprised no one has stuffed their K&N's with gauze (or something) just to keep from pulling their hair out while trying to tune / rejet / what-have-you

I just pictured someone with gauze all woven through the engine because it got sucked out of the pods.

Show us the PHOTO bud!!!

Give us the link!!!!

[lucky]

dude - you are missing the whole thing entirely.

airboxes don't work because of restriction - they work because of the (for lack of a better term) type of air they flow.

to fully understand why the question you are asking kind of answers itself, you need a good understanding of fluid dynamics. I do not possess such a level but I'll try anyway.

the volume of air isn't the issue - thus the airbox being more restrictive isn't the problem.

with an airbox the carbs have a high pressure volume of relatively still air from which to draw into the carb. The velocity stack shaped carb rubber inside the airbox assists this and the engine gest a relatively consistent supply of air. Thus tuning is easier because there are less variables for the limited parameters of the carb to deal with.

With pods you don't have that consistency. you have fast moving air at all times and only the vacuum of the engine to draw the air in with.

think of it like this: say you want to drink something with a straw,  which is easier to drink from - A full glass of water or a running faucett?

thus if you think about it the plenum of still air is what makes the airbox work and the pods flounder. I suppose I don't have to tell you that due to other designs in an engine a SOHC 750 with the airbox and a stock paper filter makes more HP than a SOHC 750 with pods - all other things being equal. A SOHC750 with a less restrictive airfilter in the stock airbox makes more power than both.

there was a guy on DTT who figured out if you replaced the bottom of the stock airbox with pods you get the look of pods and more or less the functionality of a plenum. It looked better than stock and worked better than pods but it was still a compromise.

the velocity stack shape of the carb to airbox rubber helps a great deal in directing and smoothing out airflow (believe it or not there is a whole science to the shape of a velocity stack), maybe you should be asking why someone isn't making a pod filter with a velocity stack shaped intake instead of just the board with a hole cut in it shape you have now?

The stock Honda air box has rubber velocity stacks.

[Duke McDukiedook]

They are a performance item when used WOT and tuned for RACING, they just suck ass when used in street applications.
Thy are not meant to be restrictive, just to filter a little and let the engine gulp as much air as possible without mechanical aid.

[Lil Red]

I'm going to present THIS business model, on the next "Apprentice SOHC!!"...a small wrap around green screen that surrounds the airbox...and then miniature projection equipment which constantly throw a 3D almost holographic image of a pod set up to it...with sensors that do retina scans to detect the perspective of all onlookers to change the image at a super high rate of speed so that no one suspects...at the same time post to the onlookers Facebook page..."Man those Pods are the Fasterer and the Furiouser...to the MAX"...BARTENDER...another  drink please...

[Lostboy Steve]

I knew a kid who used dryer tubing and a sock for a cold air intake on his civic... worked well. The idea is that you have 4 cylinders pulling air through a box so there is a slight pressure inside the box or vacuum. When a given intake valve opens up the air is readily there and looking for a place to go unlike a pod where air has to be pulled in. (or something like that)

[Lostboy Steve]

So what do you recommend for best results in power and ride-ability? A K&N Factory replacement? Uni factory replacement? I'm going to take my pods off I think and put the air-box back in but I'm NOT using a paper filter. I want a one time buy, cleanable, solution.

[lucky]

I'm going to present THIS business model, on the next "Apprentice SOHC!!"...a small wrap around green screen that surrounds the airbox...and then miniature projection equipment which constantly throw a 3D almost holographic image of a pod set up to it...with sensors that do retina scans to detect the perspective of all onlookers to change the image at a super high rate of speed so that no one suspects...at the same time post to the onlookers Facebook page..."Man those Pods are the Fasterer and the Furiouser...to the MAX"...BARTENDER...another  drink please...

Gemini mind way overthinking again.

[hondaface75]

Cut your bottom box, get a K&N filter. Not one here.

[Mercutiojb]

Interesting! I didn't realize that the 'stillness' of the air had such a huge effect.  I admit, I'm used to working on bicycles... my 750 might be 35 years old, but it's all new to me!

[Bodi]

Any washable filter in the airbox will work for you. I think a UNI foam filter will trap small grit particles better than the K&N. The path length through the foam is longer than through the K&N gauze.

[Lil Red]

There is no K&N drop in available for the 400f...I was surprised by that.

As far as the stillness of the air is concerned...cone filters for cars and other bikes...like say a screaming eagle kit for an HD...they all have a manifold that provides an organized tract...the design of our motors puts the pods behind the motor...temp changes and turbulance from air passing thru fins...just having the carbs back there...it's a mess atmosphere wise.

[TwoTired]

Has anyone seen an oil painting with a pod filter as the focal centerpiece?  Perhaps if done in pastels?  I did a google image search for "pod filter art".  Lots of images.  None really artful or attractive, imo.  Anybody see a mobile made with pods?  Anyone here have pods hanging on the walls of their living room, 'cause they look so danged good?
Maybe if someone grafted a pod filter onto the nose on the Mona Lisa?  (Post apocalypse Lisa?)  Or, maybe twin pod filters on Madonna a bit below chin level?  Hey, thinking about it, maybe if the filters were shaped liked breasts, they could really enhance the visual appeal of the bike.   Think about it.  FOUR of them!

I don't get how anyone can think that the widely available pods look good. 
To me, they just look like a cheap afterthought someone was simply too lazy or dumb to properly engineer.

What evidence does anyone have that the stock air box is "restrictive"? ...and under what conditions.

Have any successful racers used a "pod"?  I thought they favored Velocity stacks.  Perhaps I wasn't paying attention.

Are race bikes made to be "pretty"?  I thought they were made to perform a specific function.  Go fast at max power.  Are there any motorcycle races that involve retrieval of groceries or other purchased consumables for human ingestion?

Do people really think of their bikes like accessory clothing.  Do pod filters really make your butt look smaller?  Maybe if you wrap your legs around smaller filters it makes your legs look beefier and more muscular?

Does it matter how good the bike looks if you put the average forum member on top of it?

Just wondering...

[Lil Red]

I think it comes from the mindset of automobile thinking...I had a Merkur XR4Ti Turbo, where getting cold air actually did make a difference...so I drilled a hole in the fender and plumbed a cold air cone to it...and the idea that carburetors are a distant memory to most...people dont remember them much less understand them...and as stock things relate to cars....it seemed back in the mid 70's any and all "stock" items could only be restrictive and performance robbing....not taking into account that a motorcycle  company like Honda would be veryvthorough about their intakes as relates to the special requirements of the bike applications. Additionally the regulations on bikes in respect to emissions were much less stringent...hence no thermactors or air recirculation pumps and so forth...this due to the small displacement and a bikes nature to be more recreational at least in the US, rather than everyday transport...still the ethic that any and all factory stuff must be a
performance hindrance still persists...and must be stripped...The "fashion" of performance takes many forms, a DTM wing on a Civic EX...which lowers top
speed...doesnt seem to matter...people just want the look...as long as magazines and
 marketing continue to push these flawed perceptions on the public...things like "pod
fever" will persist.

[Spanner 1]

Here's what I use my pods for...

[Retro Rocket]

HAHAHA     nice....

[Lil Red]

Well...not that you cant make them work...It just takes ALLOT of trouble, and fiddling and what not...just to get them to not flat stall from a light...not to have to down shift to first and wail on it to get to move when you slow for a turn...it all comes down to how much you want to go thru to have them perfect. Unless you have a tailpipe sniffer a dyno and all that kind of stuff...you have to old school trial and error...guess up and down until...EUREKA!!!

[Mercutiojb]

I don't know if this comment is in relation to pods only, or all bikes in general. But, yes, it does matter. These are not purely utilitarian vehicles for most, even those on this forum. Even for the 'average forum member'

Does it matter how good the bike looks if you put the average forum member on top of it?

Just wondering...