Topic: Ignition Systems

[spiritof67]

The two systems I've heard the most (good) about are the Dyna and the Boyer Bransden. What is the common/accepted use system for 2012? I already use Dyna coils on three different machines with good effect, but is their CB750 ignition the superior and dependable high performance one -or just the dependable one (not a bad thing)?

Spirit

[turboguzzi]

Spirit.... we are all starting to suspect that you haven't discovered yet the search function in the forum... more articles on ignitions that you can shake a stick at in here,
my take on dyna from what i see in the paddock (no direct experience)? Dyna S very unreliable, Dyna 2000 good, expensive and who needs all those adjusting knobs anyway...  that said, had very god results with 85-96 OEM "black boxes" of GSXR's (pre fuel injection) not a single failure in 5 years and 50-80$ in ebay.. hard to beat that.

[bwaller]

I have used the Dyna S on two street bikes without issue. I tried the 2000 on my race engine and had ground fault issues on crank tirggers twice. With TG's prompting I too installed a GSXR ignition on it, picked up 4hp and expect it to now be trouble free. I won't dump on this Dyna ignition because I know many people use them, maybe I'm just one the unlucky few.

[Sam Green Racing]

Wrong young Brent, quite a few of us were unlucky

[lordmoonpie]

I have used the Dyna S on two street bikes without issue. I tried the 2000 on my race engine and had ground fault issues on crank tirggers twice. With TG's prompting I too installed a GSXR ignition on it, picked up 4hp and expect it to now be trouble free. I won't dump on this Dyna ignition because I know many people use them, maybe I'm just one the unlucky few.

I went away from Boyer to Dyna 2000 to get the adjustable nature that the boyer doesn't have. Turns out my Dyna 2000 module was dead  out of the box. Had to get an auto electrician in to prove it and it cost me a lot (I'm rubbish at electrics). Now back with Dyna to see what they think about it and their response will colour my view of them for ever after...

[spiritof67]

"...more articles on ignitions that you can shake a stick at in here, "....and therin lies the rub. Hard to sort through the years of good information for that Scarab beetles' needsworth of information. I note that the Dyna 3 (?) wasn't mentioned - I had always heard that most of the more complicated systems, including the 2000, were more so than needed. How about the standard Dyna system? And I'll be a good newbie and try to sort through some of the years of research, talk, contention, theses and other info on ignition systems. But until then, I have a Dyna 3 right here - and a Boyer Bransden.

Spirit

[spiritof67]

...and you're right, I don't know how to navigate the search function. Just not bright enough, suppose. Couldn't find anything Dyna Dyna there, though I'm sure it's there. Not a knowledgable user of the system just yet..

Spirit

[BrockSamson]

spirit the search bar on the top right doesn't work.  Try the google search bar to the top left.

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-9323359806520211%3A1305160748&ie=UTF-8&q=dyna&sa=Search&siteurl=forums.sohc4.net%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Dunread&ref=forums.sohc4.net%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Dunreadreplies#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=dyna&gsc.page=1

[Doctor_D]

Spirit.... we are all starting to suspect that you haven't discovered yet the search function in the forum...

What gave that away, besides the one-hundred and first shock conversation...   

that said, had very good results with 85-96 OEM "black boxes" of GSXR's (pre fuel injection) not a single failure in 5 years and 50-80$ in ebay.. hard to beat that.

Good to know for future projects.  Is there a map of the ignition curve available?  I'll try searching on it in case you've covered this before. 

[turboguzzi]

Spirit.... we are all starting to suspect that you haven't discovered yet the search function in the forum...

What gave that away, besides the one-hundred and first shock conversation...   

that said, had very good results with 85-96 OEM "black boxes" of GSXR's (pre fuel injection) not a single failure in 5 years and 50-80$ in ebay.. hard to beat that.

Good to know for future projects.  Is there a map of the ignition curve available?  I'll try searching on it in case you've covered this before. 

curve's nothing fancy, 0 advance at 0 rpm, linear advance of 21 degrees at 2500 and thats about it i.e.  i usually set it up for 7 degs static, 28 full advance.

[spiritof67]

Doctor D, sorry I don't get out as often as you may recommend but simple me thought asking a question and getting an answer was a smarter way to go about doing research than reading 1,000 reposts. Consider me admonished. But if this forum exists to exchange knowledge, is its function not to answer simple questions simply and quickly? Just my rube philosophy, perhaps!

I did read all 31 pages of the Daytona CR750 thread, though. Actually,it pretty much proved my point. Also, thanks to my compatriot for pointing out that the search function didn't work. That was a bit counter-intuitive, especially after I was directed to it. Needed my "Things You Are Supposed To KNow" manual on that one...gotta find that damn book!

Spirit, still wondering who sells YSS at best price.....or should I say"Thank you sir, may I have another?" first? Ha!

[Doctor_D]

Doctor D, sorry I don't get out as often as you may recommend but simple me thought asking a question and getting an answer was a smarter way to go about doing research than reading 1,000 reposts. Consider me admonished.

I was having fun with you, but perhaps you missed the emoticons.  We're a pretty fun bunch and only get short with perennial  block-heads.

[MRieck]

Doctor D, sorry I don't get out as often as you may recommend but simple me thought asking a question and getting an answer was a smarter way to go about doing research than reading 1,000 reposts. Consider me admonished.

I was having fun with you, but perhaps you missed the emoticons.  We're a pretty fun bunch and only get short with perennial  block-heads.

Dave's a nice fella....he has been to my home even though he lives 3,000 miles away. I'm certain no disrespect was intended. And yes....the search function is lame.

[bwaller]

Dave, I used a set-up from an earlier 1100 because the rev limiter is @ 10,900 to 11,100 rpm depending on the model. These 500's can rev higher, but never make any more power above this anyway.
These Sukuki ignition's aren't adjustible in any way and it seems on the unit I have advance is fed over 19-22 degrees (again depending on model year) full at 2375rpm. Between models there are some slight differences in when full advance arrives but certainly rev limits are much higher for the later 600's & 750's. I never saw any advance mapping information, that is Suzuki's little secret. 

TG & I used the original Honda points plate, moved the single pick-up inside to align with the rotor.  There are a few minor modifications to the plate, but ultimately allows for adjustment. I used a 7" aluminum degree wheel and machined an adaptor to secure it well to the left end of the crank and use it with a timing light to set timing at full advance only. (I don't care about timing setting at idle anyway) This lightweight degree wheel didn't move with the engine running so it's an accurate way to go. The Suz. rotor OD matches the Honda crank end recess ID, just need to find a suitable locating pin.

[spiritof67]

No offense taken and even without emoticons I got the message. Can get a bit longish some times. But strangely, if you look at it over time, there are enough disparate threads about ignition systems to have an SOHC4 book on them. I say strangely because virtually every SOHC 750 I have seen in the last 15 years has Dyna ignition, to the point where an unknowing newbie might think they were OEM! And this was the first place I ever heard of Dyna ignition spark tapering off above 6-7,000 rpm, so I was really wondering about that. Personally I always wondered why capacitative discharge wasn't investigated further. Using the points as a trigger for ignition spark generally makes for a good spark. But we don't do it. Worked (and still does work) for cars, I've experienced it. ?

Spirit

[johno]

My two bobs worth,
Had both Boyer and Dyna , had issues with both so time for a change. I,m ordering a cycle X programmable system, they look interesting,
I like the idea of individual spark rather than dual.
The coils have a reputation for reliability in the auto world.
I'll give this light sensor a go, cant be any worse than the others.
After living with maggies for a race motor I,m not sure the reprogrammable  curves are any big deal,  but hey its 2012, got to see what these young blokes are up to.
cheers boys  ... Johno

[turboguzzi]

my overall take on the subject? any system that places solid state components (transistors, light emitting diodes, photocells, etc. ) near or inside hot areas of the engine = asking for trouble. solid state just doesnt like heat. So the nice thing about these super simple OEM ignitions is that the only part exposed to heat is just a little coil, i.e. some thin wire wrapped around.....

[spiritof67]

...low spark energy, tendency to burn points if they have to share our charging system with a QI headlamp...!


Points are fine. Can't pass notice that there isn't a single performance motorcycle made today that doesn't use some sort of electronic ignition, though.

But what about the subjec of spark energy, and I mean in a street use motor? Which Dyna (3? S?) is better, and is the
Boyer still in the running?

Spirit