Author Topic: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video  (Read 3880 times)

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Offline stereosilence

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No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« on: June 01, 2012, 03:40:02 PM »
I rebuilt my carbs, synced them, and rode around for 30 min no problem, real fun. Went back out the other day and started having all sorts of problems. It currently will barely idle and if I give it a good rev, it hangs at 3k and runs there for about 15 seconds.

I put my idle screws at 1.5 and I hooked my carbtune gauges back up to see what my vacuum was doing since everything seemed to go wrong. No Vacuum! When at idle (where I had 18 cm/hg two days ago) there was nothing. When I rev, nothing. If I blip the throttle and let go, the bars jump up before going back to zero. I sprayed WD-40 all around the carbs to look for a vacuum leak, nothing changed.

I found this thread that shows a guy with the same problem. It said to wd-40 the mechanical advancer. I'm not really sure what that is. Can you point it out in this photo?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=104898.0



1975 550k
Jets: 38/100 (stock)
Needle setting: Richest notch (was lean one notch up)
Unipods
drag pipes (w/ new exhaust gaskets)
Spark present
timing, valve clearance, oil change, cam chain tension adjusted, proper electrical wiring all within the last few hundred miles (if that much)
Fully charged battery + strong charging system
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 07:36:47 PM by stereosilence »

Offline trueblue

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 04:02:39 PM »
Lets start at the easy stuff, if you want to lube the mechanical advance you need to remove it, first remove your points plate, then the little 10mm bolt in the middle and if memory serves me correct you end up with an advance unit in your hand.  This you need to disassemble, clean and lubricate, taking good note of how it came apart because it can be put together back to front.  To lube it I just used a light grease that we have at work, it is designed for such applications, don't ask me what it is, I can't remember what it is called.  In regards to your no vacuum, first of all check your gauges by sucking on the hoses, then check your hoses for splits, check all your fittings for snugness.  For your engine to be running it must have some vacuum, if it didn't, it wouldn't be running.  There must be something not quite right for you too be getting a no vacuum reading, I would however believe that you are getting a low vacuum reading that your gauges aren't sensitive enough to read, which could be caused by numerous things, base timing, idle mixture, valve clearance, low compression or leaking valves to name a few.  If it was me I would run through a basic tune-up as a start, that way you know for 100% that all the basics are right, and forget everything you have already done to it, to find the issue quicker cover all bases.
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 04:14:21 PM »
I tried to clean the points with some 400 grit sandpaper. That helped some. It bumped the idle up to a few cm/hg I think. It seemed like one set of points had a small bump on it so maybe it wasn't getting good contact. I'm not sure how it would happen so suddenly though.

I did degrease the engine and rinse it with a hose. The gasket on the points cover isn't that great...think that could do it? Should I just buy new points?

I don't want to start all over with the tuneup. It literally worked two days ago.

Offline trueblue

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 04:20:02 PM »
By a basic tune up, I mean check your point gaps, idle mixtures and if you're keen check your valve lash.  If your points have burnt out in a short time there is a fair chance your condensers aren't up to the task or you are drawing too much current for your coils.  A weak ignition will definately cause a low vacuum condition.
1979 CB650Z
Nothing can be idiot proofed, the world keeps producing better idiots.
Electronic Guages for your SOHC 4

Offline stereosilence

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 05:40:27 PM »
How would I know if my condensers are bad or if I am drawing too much current?

Offline trueblue

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 11:11:25 PM »
Measure the primary circuit resistance of the coils, if it is too low it will cause a high current draw,  if someone has fitted "upgraded" coils eg 3 ohm or the later honda electronic ones, like the 650's have on them, only have (if memory serves correct) about 2.7 ohm, I believe the standard 550 ones are around 5 ohm.  Ideally to test a condenser you need a capacitance meter, some multimeters have these built in.  In leiu of a capacitance meter you can use an old analog style multimeter, basically, set the meter to the olms setting and measure the resistence. For a good capacitor, the needle should jump towards zero then move towards infinity as you make contact with it. Then switch the meter leads and do it again. This time the needle should jump about twice as far. The first time you are putting a charge of 1.5 volts on the capacitor. When you reverse the leads, you are reversing the charge so the needle will jump further. One end of the capacitor must be disconected from the circuit. If the meter has some selection, choose a high resistence range.
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Nothing can be idiot proofed, the world keeps producing better idiots.
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Offline dave500

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 11:50:37 PM »
no vacuum?that dosent suck!

Offline matt mattison

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2012, 02:51:39 AM »
Before you go taking that mechanical advancer all apart, you really should verify its operation with a timing light. If it checks out ok, look somewhere else. Also, when you clean points with sandpaper, sometimes the grit is left behind on the contacts which could foul your ignition. Use a small file , I know Pep Boys sells a specific file for that job. Like Tru Blue said, you must have vacuum, or you wouldn't run. You never mentioned what RPM that the vacuum was being checked at. Make sure you are checking the vacuum around 1000 RPM. Vacuum tends to go away as the engine speeds up, thus giving you a faulty reading. Since you already checked for vacuum leaks (I like to check with carb cleaner instead of WD40 because WD40 is an oil which attracts dirt to your engine), maybe you have plugged jets leaning out your mixture? I realize the carbs were clean, but could you say the same for your fuel tank? I would look there next after your confident the ignition is in order. Take a plug reading.
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Offline lucky

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2012, 07:11:00 PM »
How would I know if my condensers are bad or if I am drawing too much current?

Most volt ohm meters cannot test the condensers.
Just get new ones when you buy new points sets.

Offline stereosilence

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2012, 09:51:03 PM »
Measure the primary circuit resistance of the coils, if it is too low it will cause a high current draw,  if someone has fitted "upgraded" coils eg 3 ohm or the later honda electronic ones, like the 650's have on them, only have (if memory serves correct) about 2.7 ohm, I believe the standard 550 ones are around 5 ohm.  Ideally to test a condenser you need a capacitance meter, some multimeters have these built in.  In leiu of a capacitance meter you can use an old analog style multimeter, basically, set the meter to the olms setting and measure the resistence. For a good capacitor, the needle should jump towards zero then move towards infinity as you make contact with it. Then switch the meter leads and do it again. This time the needle should jump about twice as far. The first time you are putting a charge of 1.5 volts on the capacitor. When you reverse the leads, you are reversing the charge so the needle will jump further. One end of the capacitor must be disconected from the circuit. If the meter has some selection, choose a high resistence range.

Where do I stick the probes to test the "primary circuit resistance of the coils"?

I bought a points file and tried to set the gap. I am going to get the advancer lined up and hopefully everything will be much better. I hate doing the timing (and anything with feeler gauges).

Offline trueblue

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2012, 03:38:51 AM »
The primary circuit of the coils is the 12v circuit, I would try to test as much of the circuit as possible, I would test it from the points to just past the kill switch, the black wire out of the kill switch to the contact of the points.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 05:40:16 AM by trueblue »
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Offline wedoo2

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2012, 05:13:46 AM »
Watching with interest.  I am having the exact same problem with my 74.
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2012, 01:39:55 PM »
It seems to have been the timing. I set the gap and hooked up a light and the timing was about half an inch behind the second notch (where it is supposed to be on the 1st notch). In order to get the timing correct, I had to make the gap a little larger than what I thought was spec (but lets face it, the feeler gauge isn't super accurate). I think that when the points get that peak, you have to make sure that the gap is at the peak, so that means the rest of it looks more open than it is supposed to be.

Anyway, it seems to idle really well now and once it got warmed up, the vacuum levels came to where I was expecting them. Next time I get to riding it (not sure when as I am going to revisit the carb sync), I'll post again and report.

Offline stereosilence

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Re: No vacuum!
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2012, 07:36:27 PM »
So, the carb sync tweak didn't take long and I got it running (really well actually) and took it out for a ride. It ran great! I stopped and got gas and got regular. After that it didn't run as well (I had midgrade before). Not sure if that affected it or if it was something else. Anyway, here is a cell phone video of it after I got home.

June 3, 2012 7:57 PM

Offline killersoundz

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2012, 08:02:14 PM »
Higher octane gas is only needed if you get pinging, which usually only if you have higher compression engine. Regular 87 actually has more energy in it than 'higher grade' But I guess the ethanol sux
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Offline Tews19

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2012, 08:06:41 PM »
Very nice. I  hope you didnt sync with the gas off as in your video. Also, what is the light guage in your headlight bucket? Some upclose pics of it?
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2012, 08:12:09 PM »
Plenty of bad gas out there. I rode a horrible 100 miles on a tank of crappy gas = extra vibration in the motor ( read rider ! ) and lack of smooth at any rpms. Stopped to fill-up at an ethanol gas station out in the boonies ( where you'd think slow pumping out of the tanks would effect the ethenol/water problem ) and bike ran waaay better with new gas.... it's pot-luck IMO. :D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 08:15:37 PM by Spanner 1 »
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2012, 08:23:48 PM »
Yeah, I was running chevron well in the beginning. I filled up at QT (may be local here in Atlanta). My buddy owns a BMW and his dealership told him to buy Shell or QT so I assume they are quality controlled. Who knows. Here in Atlanta we have what they call "boutique" gas with additives to reduce smog (aside from ethanol)  ::). I'll probably run some seafoam soon. It is currently really helping my car's performance.

The gas was on when I synced. I posted this video as an afterthought and forgot to turn the gas on.

Tews: The light gauge is a voltage meter the PO installed. He had the electronics all F-ed up and had it where the headlight was permanently on. He ran out of juice in traffic one day and got paranoid so he had that installed. It just shows an at-a-glance of what the main power voltage is. It's good to know that I'm getting full voltage when riding on the highway.

Offline Tews19

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2012, 05:22:35 AM »
Cool. Headlight always on not normal? 75 550F I have and it's on all the time. I do not have an on/off switch
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Offline xsmooth69x

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2012, 05:52:35 AM »
wait a second......

i synced my carbs using regular 87 octane gas.....

now i took the time to buy a 5 gallon can of pure premium gas 92 octane with no ethanol.

so now is my bike going to be off? i havent ran it after the sync with the new gas
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2012, 06:08:45 AM »
Tews: On mine, there is a "headlight" switch on the right hand control and a hi/lo switch on the left. The headlight turns on the headlight (as well as the always-on component of the taillight). My RH control is sort of busted so I brought out the headlight and kill switch to some toggles on either side of the ignition switch. Check my build thread.

xsmooth69x: You shouldn't have to resync, I don't think. I just thought it didn't run as well after I put in the new gas. It could be the brand, additives, octane, or something completely different. Let me know how it runs with the no ethanol gas. I wish I could get it.

Offline xsmooth69x

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Re: No vacuum! - Fixed w/ video
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2012, 10:19:45 AM »
Tews: On mine, there is a "headlight" switch on the right hand control and a hi/lo switch on the left. The headlight turns on the headlight (as well as the always-on component of the taillight). My RH control is sort of busted so I brought out the headlight and kill switch to some toggles on either side of the ignition switch. Check my build thread.

xsmooth69x: You shouldn't have to resync, I don't think. I just thought it didn't run as well after I put in the new gas. It could be the brand, additives, octane, or something completely different. Let me know how it runs with the no ethanol gas. I wish I could get it.

ya when i get up and riding i will post it. this thread will probably be gone but i will report on my build thread!
1975 CB550 (FINISHED?!?!?)
first motorcycle ever!!! ow and i dont know how to ride it either :D

raw rust rice venti quad shot cafe racing latte project aka my build..... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88853.0

black and white equation godzilla chalkboard 
1972 cb750 - next in line for some <3