Author Topic: A little paint experiment. (Read 12424 times)

LesterPiglet · « **on:** June 18, 2012, 03:31:44 AM »

Got some purty flake from Ebay so I'm trying to see if I can use it. Never done flake before so it should be interesting. This is only quick and temporary to see the effect.

Damaged tank, I'm afraid it's all I have.

A bit of filler and primer....voila.

The tank will eventually be blue, as I say this is an experiment.

A few runs but this was just a quickie to see the effect.
I'll need to put more flake in the laquer, this was just a teaspoonful.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:42:44 AM »

Have you considered applying dry flake? What kind of flake effect are you looking for?

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2012, 05:20:45 AM »

I will eventually be looking for this.

I didn't even know you could buy this stuff. I'm just seeing what I can work with.
Is the dry flake applied with a compressor? Is it a better job?...easier?

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2012, 05:26:20 AM »

Hold me back for goodness sake!

Stev-o · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2012, 05:39:54 AM »

That look like my 550 that was painted Metallic Sapphire Blue. My painted bought the metallic powder from a paint shop and mixed itvith clear and shot it. Looked great.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2012, 05:57:26 AM »

Quote from: Stev-o on June 18, 2012, 05:39:54 AM

That look like my 550 that was painted Metallic Sapphire Blue. My painted bought the metallic powder from a paint shop and mixed itvith clear and shot it. Looked great.

It is Flake Sapphire Blue for my 550.

cookindaddy · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2012, 06:15:54 AM »

Interesting! Thanks for posting.

ekpent · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2012, 06:19:37 AM »

A lot of those nice candy colors from back in the day have a silver flake base coat with the candy built up in layers to the desired color. Lot of old tanks,red,orange especially that have faded back out to silver on top. Good old fashioned Candy Apple Red was also done with a gold colored flake base sometimes,did that color for a friend once. Are you experimenting with that translucent candy color yet.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2012, 06:51:11 AM »

I've just got the flake and trying to find/buy a suitable base colour.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2012, 10:26:54 AM »

Quote from: LesterPiglet on June 18, 2012, 05:20:45 AM

I will eventually be looking for this.

I didn't even know you could buy this stuff. I'm just seeing what I can work with.
Is the dry flake applied with a compressor? Is it a better job?...easier?

This sapphire blue above was applied with a silver flake base and a candy blue over it. You can tell because the flake is not visible in the areas that are in shadow. If it were just flake on top of the base coat then you would be able to see the flake at all times.

Dry flake is the method for shooting flake that is usually too big for guns, that real 1970's heavy flake look. Basically you lay down a wet clear coat and before it dries blow unsuspended flake onto the surface. Then you clear over it. You can use a compressor for it and there is a tool called the flake buster made specifically for it, but honestly I knew guys that would spray with one hand and throw flake at the part with the other like it was pixie dust.

here is a homemade setup using an air compressor:
poorman's flake buster

and the mini flake buster for flake with your airbrush:
Mini Flake Buster Tank Demo 1.wmv

The holo-flake you are using should look like this when done properly:

notice how you can see the base color underneath and the flake adds the color and punch? It is it's own effect and some people really dig it, but it won't give you the effect you are looking for.

if you add a lot of flake to your paint (either in a mid coat or in suspension with the color coat - and BTW you should be shooting any kind of flake with a primer gun) you can you can end up with a finish that looks like this:

it is basically the technique you are using now but with lots of layers of buildup, notice how "thick" the finished paint looks? takes a mile of clear to make sure all your flake is laying flat and fully covered. sanding inbetween clear coats as well. The flake you are using right now isn't really good for this technique, plus this takes a metric ton of flake to do depending on the piece.

The effect you want is a candy over a premixed small silver flake paint. So your base is silver with flake premixed in and in suspension, and you do all your coloring with "candy" color tinited clears.

Showing you a piece with one color won't illustrate the effect very well so here are some examples of multi color designs over a solid consistent silver flake base:

notice how in eaxh of these examples it is the light filtering through the color that gives the flake the added depth and color appropriate sparkle?

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2012, 10:55:59 AM »

Thanks Geeto, that helps a lot.
Since I painted I've discovered I don't have the flake I need, the sun came out.

Damn I want blue.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:02:13 PM »

The flake you have is called holographic flake. More like tiny prisims than like little silvers of metal. It is a good look when shot over black or silver but not what you want. I have never worked with it so I am kinda curious what it would look like if you shot candy over it. I found this image online where the painter says he shot razberry candy over holo flake and you can see it shifts the color spectrum in favor of the candy but there are still tones outside the range of red:

it certainly is loud and proud. I think I am going to have to play with it now that I have seen this. I suggest you get some candy concentrate and mix it with your clear and see what the holo flake does as well, might end up with something really one off.

However, if your heart is set on that saphire blue, I would suggest House of Kolor Orion Silver Glamour Metalic and a bag of .004 x .004 Micro flake (HOk,, Kustom Shop, etc...) just to punch it up. Over this I would spray HOK Orential Blue - here is the sample of it over the orion silver on the website:

the HOK stuff is expensive and there are cheaper alternatives out there from the Kustom Shop, Alsa, Auto-Air. The one bit of advice I can give is don't mix and match, whomever's stuff you use for the base, that is who you should use for the candy.

with candies a light touch and building the colors in layers is preferred. A thick nasty run can put you back to square one. I have only done candies with an airbrush since I am not setup to paint with a big gun.

Don R · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:21:44 PM »

if you use house of colors, the clear is indestructible. That means you have 24 hours to wet sand and buff or it's almost impossible to work with. Stripper hardly touches it.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:44:02 PM »

Good to know, I use a DuPont 2k clear and have someone else do the base coat usually as I only have an airbrush.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2012, 03:31:33 PM »

Unfortunately I haven't found a source in the UK for any pretty paint and it can't be shipped from the US, but at least I'm further on than I was.
BTW the laquer had a tiny bit of black in it from my last spray which was that car so possibly the flake should have been slightly brighter.
Thanks for the info guys, if you have any more please post.

I'm after the sapphire blue because I have two brand new original side casings in that colour.

Stev-o · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:45:19 PM »

Here are the side covers that I had painted:

And the bike:

I regretted not painting the tank since they weren't a perfect match but I didnt trust the painter, first job he did for me. I have since lost contact with him and sold the bike.
I love the color blue on CB's, and since not real common, makes me want another even more. Just picked up a spare tank and covers for my K4 836 and blue is in my future!

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:48:54 PM »

That's what I want my bike to look like.
When I ordered my panels from Silvers they asked what colour I wanted. I said it didn't matter because I was going to paint anyway. They came in that blue and I fell in love with it.

Would you care to share the process Stev-o?

Stev-o · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:58:10 PM »

This was a few years ago and my painter handled it, but this is what I remember:

He bought a baggie of metallic, mixed it with the clear and shot it. Then buffed it out. It looked very good, not perfect, but well worth the $50 I paid him.
The PO said the tank paint was original so I was reluctant to repaint [and it was in good cond].
I wish I had more info to share with you, hope that helps a little. I suggest a trip to your local auto paint store, bring the side cover with you.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2012, 05:02:21 PM »

Heheh, nothing local near me except building societies and shopping centres. I live in a seaside resort.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2012, 05:31:51 AM »

I wish someone would take this bloomin spraygun off me.

Mcwilliams570 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 19, 2012, 06:15:00 AM »

I think you need to paint a helmet

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2012, 06:29:25 AM »

If I can get my tank right I may consider doing my helmet to match, but it's newish and unmarked so I'm a bit wary.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2012, 09:27:48 AM »

What you need to do is go to the auto jumble and buy about 5 or 6 of those $5 novelty helmets. They make excellent forms and cost less than real paint forms. Less prep too since all you do is scuff an spray, no real need for primer and black makes an excellent flake base. Plus if it comes out nice you can hang it on your wall or sell it for $10 to someone else at the next autojumble.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #23 on:** June 19, 2012, 12:35:12 PM »

Hmmm, there's thinking. May start a business painting rubbish sparkly. People will buy anything.

ekpent · « **Reply #24 on:** June 19, 2012, 01:34:30 PM »

Quote from: LesterPiglet on June 19, 2012, 12:35:12 PM

Hmmm, there's thinking. May start a business painting rubbish sparkly. People will buy anything.

Have you hit your washer and dryer yet with that new flake yet ?? Rick Brett who does the Kaw triples over in your neck of the woods or England anyways,should be able to get a line on good paint. Google his name maybe. Nice Guy and He hangs out here in Michigan a little,met him but wish he would quit taking our good bikes home with him

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #25 on:** June 19, 2012, 02:06:56 PM »

Thanks ekpent, I'll look him up.

You have all the good bikes, we need some here. Even a few s**te ones for spares would be welcome.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2012, 02:14:11 PM »

The method I'm using could become expensive and time consuming. If you try to rub down between coats the flake loses colour so you need to put lashings and lashings of clearcoat on instead of rubbing down.

701arvn · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2012, 03:30:30 PM »

Lester,

this might help:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=56529.0

Andy

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #28 on:** June 19, 2012, 03:42:40 PM »

Quote from: 701arvn on June 19, 2012, 03:30:30 PM

Lester,

this might help:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=56529.0

Andy

Thanks Andy, I need all the help I can get.

701arvn · « **Reply #29 on:** June 19, 2012, 03:48:29 PM »

Holo FLake Wheelie Bin - Love it

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2012, 08:58:14 AM »

Did you just mist over that red? I want to do my brothers bike jet black and then mist some sapphire blue flake over it. Btu I want it subtle so its still got a lot of black showing through.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2012, 09:32:59 AM »

Quote from: twistedengineering on June 20, 2012, 08:58:14 AM

Did you just mist over that red? I want to do my brothers bike jet black and then mist some sapphire blue flake over it. Btu I want it subtle so its still got a lot of black showing through.

Flake mixed with clearcoat. Not misted but a proper coat. It leaves it rough so you can't rub it down without the flake losing some colour.
You would need to put a lot of coats of clear on it before it became smooth. Check out the car, it looks a lot better. I sprayed very little on that so you wouldn't need as much clearcoat over it.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2012, 01:21:03 PM »

Quote from: twistedengineering on June 20, 2012, 08:58:14 AM

Did you just mist over that red? I want to do my brothers bike jet black and then mist some sapphire blue flake over it. Btu I want it subtle so its still got a lot of black showing through.

There is a Subaru WRX STI color that uses the same effect. Flake is in the base coat but because it is black and a microflake it only shows up in direct sunlight as a glow. They changed the effect every year, 2005 I think it was gold, 2006 I think was red, not sure what year the blue was.

Don't bother with flake in the clear if you want it to be subtle. It will always be visible.

Mcwilliams570 · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2012, 01:30:49 PM »

Thanks for posting this Lester I have actually learned alot and thanks to Geeto67 for your insight and bothering to type and explain it some very good information..

Matt

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #34 on:** June 20, 2012, 02:29:55 PM »

No problems. Sometimes you need to post wrong stuff to get the gurus to chime in.

Geeto67 · « **Reply #35 on:** June 20, 2012, 06:21:50 PM »

I am no guru.....I started out airbrushing model cars and then had a job as a sign painter (before I went back to school). I still use my airbrush for small jobs but I have never done anything larger than a motorcycle tank (unless you count long rectangular signs). Working with an airbrush you learn to use a lot of effects, but I am still #$%*e with a larger gun.

The best advice I can give you is the best paint job starts with good prep and good post.

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Author Topic: A little paint experiment. (Read 12424 times)