Topic: Loud clicking from top end - not just a loose valve!

[Franky]

MRieck: Check my answer in reply #10: When I bought the bike, the PO told me that a valve snapped and messed up things quite bad. He had a mechanic fix it by basically combining the best of two engines. While the bike has been running great, that mechanic has made some rookie mistakes that I think even top mine! Like leaving out/forgetting one of the dowel/oil restricters in the cranckcase, using old & stiff o-rings, leaking valves, bad valve seals... Oh well - I get to know my bike better and learn from you guys!

[phil71]

looks like that cylinder ran with some loose metal in there.. a washer, a bolt.. something. Don't ask me how I know what that looks like.

[crazypj]

This is the angle the cam is sitting at when the T-mark is in alignment... Is this caused by the missing material?

crazyPJ: One only uses the copper gasket, right? No ordinary gasket as well... Or is both OK too?

Line should be pointing UP after head was skimmed, down, as shown, shows cam too far advanced.
Re-setting timing one tooth may be all you need

Use copper gasket with 'coppercote' spray on high temp sealer

[Xnavylfr]

A copper gasket would be best. If you have NOT used them before , they should be heated to soften them before use. when they are hard they don't seal well.I used them on a HI-PO KZ(1075).


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[tlbranth]

Mother McReady, Franky, I'd say the machinist was a bit overzealous. He took off way too much metal. 'Twas me, I'd be expecting a replacement cylinder head from him.

[Franky]

Hi guys

Old thread, but with a son of 14 months and lotsa other projects... things move sloooowly

I now have a parts bike, which means I could swap the head. However, the old, milled head has nice new valve seals, regrinded seats and all.

I have found out, that app. 1 mm is mising on the milled head, so I'm leaning towards having a 1 mm copper gasket made. Should it be the base or head gasket? Could be either one to get the lift, I guess.

Any thoughts?

[trueblue]

The base would probably be easier to seal

[lucky]

If you did not adjust the cam chain tensioner the way the book tells you then you will have noise.

"When you said you did it several different ways I know it means you do not have a workshop manual or are not following it.

If you had a bent valve it would idle unevenly but have a popping noise from the exhaust intermittantly. Pop,pop space pop(space)pop...pop pop pop etc.,.

When you adjusted your valves the values you gave make no sense.
"- I checked and doublechecked the valve clearance, and I'm sure I got the 0,05 and 0,08 right. "
For a stock cam they should be something like .002 (0.0508mm) intake and .003 (.0762mm) exhaust.

[crazypj]

If head was machined 1mm, you'll need 1mm base and 1mm head gaskets to get things backto stock.
I would do copper at both ends, better heat transfer

[lucky]

If the head was machined ONE MILLIMETER is (0.03937 thousandths of an inch!!)
That is 39 thousands of an inch !

WOW!!
Must have been a car machine shop.

The head may be ruined.

They should have only taken off a few thousandths of an inch, NOT thirty nine thousandths.

[lucky]

MRieck: Check my answer in reply #10: When I bought the bike, the PO told me that a valve snapped and messed up things quite bad. He had a mechanic fix it by basically combining the best of two engines. While the bike has been running great, that mechanic has made some rookie mistakes that I think even top mine! Like leaving out/forgetting one of the dowel/oil restricters in the cranckcase, using old & stiff o-rings, leaking valves, bad valve seals... Oh well - I get to know my bike better and learn from you guys!

That mechanic should be fired and never be allowed to work on a motorcycle.
It is ALL about the details. Not crashing and bashing through everything.

[lucky]

Hi guys

Old thread, but with a son of 14 months and lotsa other projects... things move sloooowly

I now have a parts bike, which means I could swap the head. However, the old, milled head has nice new valve seals, regrinded seats and all.

I have found out, that app. 1 mm is mising on the milled head, so I'm leaning towards having a 1 mm copper gasket made. Should it be the base or head gasket? Could be either one to get the lift, I guess.

Any thoughts?

Base gasket +1  NOT head gasket.

[lucky]

Hi guys

Old thread, but with a son of 14 months and lotsa other projects... things move sloooowly

I now have a parts bike, which means I could swap the head. However, the old, milled head has nice new valve seals, regrinded seats and all.

I have found out, that app. 1 mm is mising on the milled head, so I'm leaning towards having a 1 mm copper gasket made. Should it be the base or head gasket? Could be either one to get the lift, I guess.

Any thoughts?

Base gasket +1  NOT head gasket.

[DJ_AX]

If the head was machined ONE MILLIMETER is (0.03937 thousandths of an inch!!)
That is 39 thousands of an inch !

WOW!!
Must have been a car machine shop.

The head may be ruined.

They should have only taken off a few thousandths of an inch, NOT thirty nine thousandths.

+1
.039 is a lot to machine off.
And if he says he HAD to take that much off to make it flat... then he should have left a "witness mark" (a small part left un-ground) to prove it.

[Franky]

Thanks for your input guys.

Yes, we all agree that 1 mm is way to much. I'm yet to confront the guy - I have had a feeling it won't bring anything. However, now that I have another head, I think I'll ask him to do that one properly (I know he has done fine jobs for friends previously).

Thanks for confirming my belief that the copper gasket should be the base one.

@Lucky:
a) I have the Shop Manual, the Haynes and Clymer books and did follow them. I just tried to mess around with the adjustment to see if the clicking sound would change.
b) I'm sure the clicking noise came from the valves (not the cam chain), and only from cyl 1 and 4. I held a screwdriver against my ear and the engine, and it was quite  easy to make out where the sound originated from.
c) The idling with the occasional pop you describe sounds somewhat familiar - especially when it was cold.
d) I think the 0,05 and 0,08 makes sense just fine. Those values are found in the Honda Shop Manual. As a european I use metric tools and use the metric values given by Honda. I guess it would have been a good idea if I had added 'mm' in the post.
 
@crazyPJ: Why do I need 2x1mm when only 1 mm was taken away?

[Lars]

Working on it, I would still check that all your valves slides smothly. I was once uncareful, too, reassembling the head and forgot to loosen up all the valve tap screws. Ended up with a bent valve hanging in the guide - then suddenly pressed all the way by the spring giving a clicking sound...